Safe in a dank garage

[aljames]

About ten years ago I learned a very expensive lesson. I had a Amsec 7240 installed in my new homes garage. Safe company recommended a combination of a dryrod and several rechargeable desiccant packs. I had quite a few spendy sticks residing safely in there.....Or so I thought.

One year I decided to take a trip up to Alaska for a few weeks in the spring. When I came back I was so busy that I didn't go out right away and inspect the safe contents. About a week or 10 days later I wanted to go shoot so I cracked open the safe and just about had a heart attack from what I saw. Come to find out the dryrod had burned out at some point while I was gone, which then allowed the desiccant packs to load up with moisture. At that point all of the moisture and cold air was allowed to hang out in a steel box for anywhere from 1 day to about 1 month. The result was probably the most depressing moment of my adult life. The rust grew up the guns from the floor and made it about 3 feet up every gun in the safe. The ones towards the door were the worst. I ended up selling about 30k worth or rusted guns for around 10k with full disclosure of what had happened.

Lessons learned.....no safes on concrete unless the area is heated AND a moisture barrier is installed, don't trust Dryrods to keep your stuff dry AND desiccant packs get loaded up faster than an alcoholic at an open bar if not accompanied by a functioning dryrod.

Since then I am a firm believer in having a safe inside. I still have the same precautions in place and check things out regularly. Including reaching down and putting my bare hand on the dryrod to make sure that its actually hot to the touch. Being in a climate controlled area gives you an extra safety margin when everything else fails. Concrete wicks moisture by nature. Just my depressing .02! YMMV

 

[jbett98]

$17.99 at Walmart. At a glance you'll know what's going on inside your safe.

 

[NCW_Robert]

$17.99 at Walmart. At a glance you'll know what's going on inside your safe.

View attachment 411070

There are some pretty nifty monitoring systems available, mostly aimed towards server rooms but they can be used easily for a gun safe.

Below I posted a amazon link that shows quite a few of these.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_19?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=server+room+temperature+monitor&sprefix=server+room+monitor,aps,297&crid=2USMHY609F1S3&rh=i:aps,k:server+room+temperature+monitor

These are a lot more then $17.95 though. I think I would install one of these newer types if I did travel much. As of now I just user a version similar to the one jbett98 posted.

The modern versions I would use hook up via network cable, but wifi versions are also available.

I had an older version installed that would call me and then play a pre-configured announcement depending on what it sensed as a problem. It requires a home/business phone system [dial tone] though and I have went cellular so it no longer is hooked up, I am no longer using my spare bedroom as a server room and running an ISP from my house. I'm not using it as a safe monitor due to the phone system needed. I got tired of paying Verizon business phone rates and told them to go pound sand.

The nice thing about these newer version is they can send alerts ether via email or text when set trigger points are reached such as temperature or humidity.

I got security cams all over that I can log in remotely and view via a security type DVR. As of now when I travel I setup a cam and point it at a simple temperature humidity/monitor so when I remotely view the security system using my phone, I can switch to that cam and see the house temperature/humidity. Works OK if you remember to check it.

~

 

[JunkCollector]

I have had my current safe on the concrete floor for years without any issue, but the new one coming in will have an eva-dry in it. The garage does stay colder than the house, but never really gets below about 50 degrees unless I leave the main door open like an idiot. Never had any rust on any of my guns. Need to find some wood to knock on now.

 

[SUPER X]

Sounds like you live on flood plain or have ground water not to far down from the surface.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I have had my current safe on the concrete floor for years without any issue, but the new one coming in will have an eva-dry in it. The garage does stay colder than the house, but never really gets below about 50 degrees unless I leave the main door open like an idiot. Never had any rust on any of my guns. Need to find some wood to knock on now.

You have what is technically called a "non-dank" garage.

 

[NCW_Robert]

It is all about the dew point and when moisture will condense on metal, also, is there moisture to condense? In a garage, usually, yes there is more then in the house. My house is dry as hell, too dry in fact and it causes a lot of problems, specially for my wife who has some respiratory issues but my guns like it. I have a small humidifier in the bedroom that runs all night on full speed. if not for that my poor wife can hardly sleep due to the Sahara desert type [dry] air.

I have lots of windows and each of them is a DE-humidifyer, put them all together and it is no wonder I have like 15% humidity in the house.

Stuff does not rust in my garage, I can grind a section of steel and leave it "raw" and stow it in my metal rack and a yr later it is the same, with no rust. It seems guns are some kind of special metal that rust sooner and better then other types of metal. I know technically that is not true but sure seems like it some times. maybe it has to do with how much the metal is worth? Worth more = rust more.

Even though regular steel does not rust in my garage, I'd still never place a gun safe in there. My garage is far more easy to bust into then my house and once in the gun safe could be chained to and yanked out and up ramps and into the back of a pick easily. if 59 yr old me could do it in 2 minutes a couple young crackheads jacked up on speed could do it in half that. In the house, not so easy as unless you first tear down the wall your not going to chain up to it with your old beat up F250 and yank it out.

It is hard to get a heavy gun safe into a house but that is where movers come in with the tools necessary to get such a thing up or down steps and stairs etc.

I made a 6 ft steel ramp that has skate board wheels so my safe could tip over and be slid up the ramp over the entry stairs, slid into the house and then wheeled into the spare room then slid off onto the floor and walked into a closet. Then bolted to the floor and back of the closet into the studs. Then I boxed it in with wood studs and an inner and outer layer of 3/4 plywood, not just drywall so there is no access to the sides. Yes it could be removed but it would take time. Motion sensor in the closet would go off within 30 seconds and all hell would break loose hopefully causing the bad guys to give up and leave. The bad, it will probably stay with the house when I move, oh well... the cost of dry safe-er guns

~

 

[Tony617]

I have a Liberty Safe Monitor that's connected to WIFI and it sends hourly updates. It show the relative humidity and temperature. I have it hooked up my cell phone so it detects lost WiFI connection, a safe door open, close or movement event it will SMS me. I do check my PEET circulating safe drier so see if it working. I do have an analog Hygrometer and an EVA-Dry dehumidify since my humidity is a little over 50% in the fall and wintertime month. My garage floor is sealed as well and the place my safe it is dry. The monitor also shows the battery level as well so once it reaches 50% I replace the batteries.

I do have insurance on all of my guns and an alarm system with a detector on the entry door so the alarm will go off it someone opens the door. Hopefully the alarm horn that is mounted in the attic will drive the thieves away since make a 120db shrieking sound

 

[GuyBMeredith]

Just a note to follow up. My Sturdy safe is in the back of the garage, bolted to the concrete floor with a structure between it and the wall to make putting a chain on difficult.

When I am away on travel I leave a car snuggled up close to the safe to make access difficult. The car also blocks cabinets where I store tools just in case someone might have clever ideas on how to use them to break into the safe.

I've elevated the safe on steel strips with more steel placed to hide/protect the bolts where they go through the gap. I have both Golden Rod and the rechargeable desiccant.

 

[NCW_Robert]

Better Safes should be made like a fridge with a good door seal so they could hold something like 2lb pressure reliably. Then you could hook up a nitrogen tank and purge the air and have less chance for rust.

Given the cost of certain fire arms etc, I wonder why some manufacture does not offer something like that.

It really would not be hard to get a metal box like that to seal up reasonably well if it is/was made well and the seal was well designed.

Then it would net matter what the humidity was outside the safe as inside could be airless warm [heated] and DRY.

I guess wood stocks might not like it though, oh well...

~

 

[NW Backpacker]

Better Safes should be made like a fridge with a good door seal so they could hold something like 2lb pressure reliably. Then you could hook up a nitrogen tank and purge the air and have less chance for rust.

Given the cost of certain fire arms etc, I wonder why some manufacture does not offer something like that.

It really would not be hard to get a metal box like that to seal up reasonably well if it is/was made well and the seal was well designed.

Then it would net matter what the humidity was outside the safe as inside could be airless warm [heated] and DRY.

I guess wood stocks might not like it though, oh well...

~

Be careful with the nitrogen - if used in a small, poorly ventilated area such as a closet or small room it will displace oxygen and could kill you if you enter. In pure nitrogen you only get 1 or 2 breaths then you pass out - and if not moved to an area with oxygen, you'll die.

 

[P7M13]

Didna bother reading all the posts.
Keeping a safe dry discussion is like the rustproofing discussions from 40 years ago.
Here, IMO, experiential advice is worth a lot.
Some garages are way more humid than others with higher levels of condensate.
One of my safes is in the garage.
40 watt incandescent with those moisture removers from Dollar Tree. I sealed the door with weathwrproofing seal. In 9 months, zero issue with moisture.
YMMV

 

[umrek]

How about a few of these to get it off the floor...if it's bolted down tight it may not make too much of a pry point.

 

[Tony617]

I see that Otis has metal defense bore sticks that are good for two years. I haven't not tried any:

Metal Defense Bore Stick

 

[Wunbiggun]

I've got a heating rod but haven't installed it yet. I've used one of these for the last 2 years in my safe and it's worked wonderfully - not a single issue with moisture in the safe - and the safe is in my garage. It just plugs in all day every week or couple of weeks (depending on how humid it's been) to recharge and it's good as new again. I certainly would recommend it. And at $30 it's a cheap investment:

View attachment 284068




http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H0XFD2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00

I also use the exact model in my safe, and you are spot on, they work great, when the little beads in the window start to turn pink, it's time to plug it in for up to 13 hours till the beads are a blue/purple color, good to go.

 

[Camelfilter]

I also use the exact model in my safe, and you are spot on, they work great, when the little beads in the window start to turn pink, it's time to plug it in for up to 13 hours till the beads are a blue/purple color, good to go.

Costco had 2 packs of similar a while back, probably will come back as we head into fall.

RV shops also carry them, if you happen to have one nearby.*

Better pricing than sporting goods stores / sports sections of stores.

NB* Do not use the type meant for closets/closed up RV's where the contents "melt" as a desiccant. These types may outgas as a chlorine acid. Not good for metals. Stick to the types as pictured in @etrain16 's post. Several different co's make them, styles vary, but overall the same exact things.

 

[etrain16]

Costco had 2 packs of similar a while back, probably will come back as we head into fall.

RV shops also carry them, if you happen to have one nearby.*

Better pricing than sporting goods stores / sports sections of stores.

NB* Do not use the type meant for closets/closed up RV's where the contents "melt" as a desiccant. These types may outgas as a chlorine acid. Not good for metals. Stick to the types as pictured in @etrain16 's post. Several different co's make them, styles vary, but overall the same exact things.

And mine's still working great, several years later! Never have installed a Golden Rod or anything like it. The dehumidifier has been plenty!

 

[etrain16]

I also use the exact model in my safe, and you are spot on, they work great, when the little beads in the window start to turn pink, it's time to plug it in for up to 13 hours till the beads are a blue/purple color, good to go.

I usually end up having to charge mine about once a month. Depends on the weather, but that seems to about do it.

 

[gmerkt]

insurance

This is the word. It covers just about any kind of loss. Theft, loss, and damage. Rust is damage. Knowledge of what your policy covers in detail is vital. Underwriters are always interested in knowing what "reasonable" measures the insured took to prevent loss. It would be "reasonable" to counter such queries with statements like, "I insulated the floor of the safe. I used a Golden Rod. I used rechargeable humidifiers. Etc." What most companies will not cover is damage that occurs over time because they likely would view such situations as preventable. The guy above who went to Alaska, came back and found that 30K in guns had turned into 10K of salvage would've been covered. Because the Golden Rod failed, that is a catastrophic loss. If a hunter dropped his shotgun in the water and it incurred rust as a result, that would be covered. If you left your guns in a safe in an unheated, moist garage for months then discovered they were rusty, that probably wouldn't be covered by many companies. But some might.

Aside from the nature of the loss, it's amazing to me how many gun owners don't purchase insurance. They "self insure." Meaning any loss is on them. I did it for years and always fretted when I left my place for any length of time. Insurance on guns is cheap. Cheaper than building fortresses to store them in. You are not only buying insurance coverage, you're getting peace of mind in the deal too. Why let mere possessions consume so much physical and mental energy in their storage and security? Insurance relieves you of some of this burden. This is a good example of how we let possessions take over our lives.

Most companies that write insurance for guns require safe storage. Unless you have a mega value amount of guns, they don't really care what kind of safe is used. They don't care if the safe is bolted down, concealed or whatever. Generically "safe" is good enough. They don't expect most people to go beyond providing a normal safe for storage. Once again, the word "reasonable" enters the picture and this time it's on the side of the insured.

Safes can be an attraction for some burglars. They get in, see the safe, and think, "Oh, they've got a safe, must have something valuable in it." I'm not talking about teenagers or hit and split tweakers. But the kind of guys who'd use a pickup truck to yard your safe out of the garage. For this reason, I'd advise against storing anything other than guns in them. Like important papers, stuck in a gun safe just because you have "a safe." Those papers, possibly meaningless to anyone else, would be gone with the guns.

Even having a couple of safes with insured contents, when I go on a trip, I take out a few that I wouldn't want to lose under any circumstances. These I put in the trunk of a car that is stored in a garage at a daughter's house.

 

[goatpower]

I re-purposed an old steel parts cabinet for my gun storage in the garage.

I installed a hygrometer, heating rod (usually for safes) and a small albeit effective dehumidifier to help keep it all under control. Humidity hovers around 50% year round, with a few exceptions. I also routinely (every six months or so) apply Birchwood Casey Barricade or similar product to help prevent any possible corrosion.

Low maintenance and cheap to setup and maintain.