Sad day in Portland

[GUN1PDX]

As I was working in the rain/snow mix last night, doing security downtown--a group of teenagers came up to me and said that there was a shooting around the underage club The Zone. Sure enough, 9 total ppl shot. This tragedy may bring negative media on gun-ownership, but is also an opportunity for people to think about what could have been done if someone was carrying a concealed weapon? Again, I wasn't there, so can't pass judgement. Although, it is a perfect example that this could happen anywhere.

Link to the story: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/01/portland_police_respond_to_dow.html


Stay Safe.

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[Ryan]

I thought downtown portland was a gun free zone......

This really sucks. I remember about 5 years ago some friends and I were eating dinner at the Greek Cusinia. We were sitting at a table on the sidewalk and as we left there were a few people getting into a bit of a tussle up the street. We later found out that ~30min after we left one of the 2 that were fighting was shot by the other guy, about 30 feet from where we were eating dinner.

+1 to the "this can happen anywhere"

 

[korntera]

My friend was actually there at the time of the shooting, he had a loaded glock 40 cal on him. That is all i know about what happened with him besides that he was not hurt. He sent his brother a text saying IM ok, nothing happened to me and thats the last I heard. I was actually supposed to go to Kells last night and would have had a colt.45 on me if I did but decided against it and stayed at home and watched movies to save money... After last night I will be carrying more than just every once in a while. its just so sad.

 

[korntera]

Just checked the local news sites. All of them but koin6 have it at their top story, koin 6 doesn't even have one thing on it, they just have the mayor stuff.

It looked like 2 are dead, 2 are in critical condition, 3 are in stable condition and 2 have been released. It also says the gunman was wounded because he turned the gun on himself, and lived... No motive as of yet.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Jeez what's going on anyway, it's been a bad couple of months for stuff like this here in Seattle and in Portland.

If there were only laws against shooting innocent people, stuff this would never happen. Everybody always obeys the law and that's why an assault weapon ban would work magically where other laws fail.

Sorry I got carried away a little there.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I am curious as to how they are ruling out gang violence before they even know the details or connections of the victims? I am sure it is because he turned the gun on himself at the end. That probably makes it sound like a crime of passion, but gangs have been known to do suicide hits as of late.

Also, how much do you want to bet the media will be tying in the fact that the shootings took place during a gun show at the Expo?

 

[Dutchy556]

Yup this is real bad on several levels. Well now I know what all those sirens were about last night...

 

[Just Jim]

This is what a depression does. You are going to see more of this than you could ever believe would happen.

jj

 

[GUN1PDX]

Jeez what's going on anyway, it's been a bad couple of months for stuff like this here in Seattle and in Portland.

If there were only laws against shooting innocent people, stuff this would never happen. Everybody always obeys the law and that's why an assault weapon ban would work magically where other laws fail.

Sorry I got carried away a little there.

You didn't get carried away. It's coming from the heart, and we all understand the frustration. The assault weapon ban is their solution to every Gun debate or problem. Sorry, don't want to get political here.

 

[GUN1PDX]

This is what a depression does. You are going to see more of this than you could ever believe would happen.

jj

I pray to God, this is not a sign of things to come. I have read the same predictions on other forums. Job loss in the 1000's and the economic situation overall is a recipe for increased crime.

 

[Mutoman]

We need to take care of each other during these times, reach out to a friend or someone in need, if everyone on this forum helps just one family in need because of these dire times, we will have helped over a thousand people. A thousand less chances of depression causing incident.

 

[Otis]

I have a friend that was a responding officer last night. He was telling me that after nearly unloading his high cap into the crowd the guy then turned the gun on himself and is now brain dead but alive in a hospital. That was as of 6am this moring.

 

[SigSamuer]

This brings up an interesting situation for us CHL holders...And would like to hear what other people would do in this situation...

So say one of us was there during the shooting, but we were not apart of the party of the shooting....Are we within our lawful capabilities to intervene and possibly return fire on the gunman? It also sounds like innocent bystanders were hit, what happens if we DO return fire and one of our rounds hits a bystander(s)? I guess what I'm asking here is what would be the appropriate response for us as CHL holders witnessing this going down?

 

[Mutoman]

This brings up an interesting situation for us CHL holders...And would like to hear what other people would do in this situation...

So say one of us was there during the shooting, but we were not apart of the party of the shooting....Are we within our lawful capabilities to intervene and possibly return fire on the gunman? It also sounds like innocent bystanders were hit, what happens if we DO return fire and one of our rounds hits a bystander(s)? I guess what I'm asking here is what would be the appropriate response for us as CHL holders witnessing this going down?

We are within our right to protect others from deadly physical force, at least in Oregon, I don't know about the other states, someone shooting them would indeed be defined as deadly physical force.

There is always that possibility of accidentally shooting an innocent bystander, you have to make the decision to shoot based on whether the greater good would be done. If we decide to take on the shooter and hit a bystander, we may get sued.

I believe the proper response is going to be based on the individuals experience and view of the situation, forgoing any legalities, sometimes you just have to do what is right, like robbing a liquor store to feed your family, LOL.

 

[korntera]

My friend who was there at the time of the shooting did nothing, he has his CHL and had a glock 40cal on him at the time, I would assume he was either to far away, or thought he would possibly shoot others by accident. I havn't talked to him besides knowing he was down there and carrying. I also think he might have been inside and came out after the man had shot himself.

So as far as SigSamuers questions goes what should a CHL do? There is no way to tell unless you were there and in the situation and could accuratly asses it in the milliseconds it took for all this to happen(im sure time goes by slower or faster in a situation like this)

 

[torpedoman]

I am curious as to how they are ruling out gang violence before they even know the details or connections of the victims? I am sure it is because he turned the gun on himself at the end. That probably makes it sound like a crime of passion, but gangs have been known to do suicide hits as of late.

Also, how much do you want to bet the media will be tying in the fact that the shootings took place during a gun show at the Expo?

Because if it is gang/drug related there would be no reason for the average citizen to get outraged and demand gun control.

 

[armedandsafe]

The report I saw last night indicates that there were shots fired for only seconds. I would guess, from the report I saw, with quotes from a witness, less than 2 minutes from first shot to final.

In that time, evaluate the situation, locate the shooter, ascertain you have a clear shot, draw, aim, fire, at a moving target, with many people running past you in panic.

I've thought about this scenario. It is a real tough one.

Pops

 

[Joe Link]

This brings up an interesting situation for us CHL holders...And would like to hear what other people would do in this situation...

So say one of us was there during the shooting, but we were not apart of the party of the shooting....Are we within our lawful capabilities to intervene and possibly return fire on the gunman? It also sounds like innocent bystanders were hit, what happens if we DO return fire and one of our rounds hits a bystander(s)? I guess what I'm asking here is what would be the appropriate response for us as CHL holders witnessing this going down?

I believe we'd be covered legally if we successfully shot an active shooter, but I think in any case it'd be a huge gamble. Knowing myself and my training (a little, but not much), I'd guess I'd probably have a better chance of hitting an innocent bystander or getting shot myself if I were trying to engage. This is with the thought that I'm in or outside a club with many people around. If this were a dark alley where a woman was being assaulted the situation would be much different, and the odds would be in my favor. If we hit an innocent bystander, I imagine everything we own would belong to someone else.

Twice I've been in bars during shootings. Both times I was carrying, and both times I was at the opposite end of where the shots were being fired (probably 75-100ft away). Both times I took cover and kept my eyes on the shooter, who each time ran out the door. Neither time did I draw my weapon, but I certainly would have if he were coming my way.

It's always tough to know what you're going to do in any given circumstance, but the thing that's helped me most is to constantly play the 'what if' game in my mind. When I first started carrying I ran many of these scenarios through my head, came up with a plan, made a thread to speak with others about it (mostly on The High Road), then found my original plan was fundamentally flawed. I learned TONS by posting those 'what if' threads, and I suggest others try it sometime

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Only those who were there could say what opportunities, if any, may have existed for an armed citizen's response.

If you're in a poor position, too far away, blocked, background filled with innocent people, all of these could mean a "no-go" for you.

 

[pr787lv]

+1 Doc in UPlace

By the way, the shooter is no longer brain dead.

I also wanted to share an old CNN by Ted Nugent piece that is fitting:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html