Rifle/pistol combat training classes?

[Thebastidge]

Reportedly, TR just had an ND into a student's car recently. Down in CA: Folsom Shooting Club/Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. Fortunately they just shot out some tires, rather than killing/injuring someone or causing serious permanent damage to property. A student who requested a refund at that point was denied, from the YELP reviews. Tactical Response has been permanently barred from that range by the management- who found out about the ND from other sources, because TR didn't file an incident report.

Completely avoidable and unnecessary because the proximate cause of the ND was throwing a gun on the ground and grinding it into the dirt with a foot to make a point to students not to baby their fancy guns. The point could be made in literally a hundred other ways.

http://bearingarms.com/tactical-response-banned-instructor-negligently-discharges-students-truck/

 

[Johnnny13]

I think any decent training is training. I wouldn't recommend TR to anyone but if it is all they had available I guess it's better then nothing. There are some other outstanding classes that come to the PNW from time to time. I don't agree with most of the stuff TR teaches but that's just my opinion. If you enjoy it and think your getting something out of it then go for it. Just look at some of the tactics and see if it fits you.

 

[SCARed]

Keep an eye out for a new company called Kagwerks. The owner is a local from Sword International, a Ranger, and has been training SOF around the world.

 

[Johnnny13]

Kagwerks - If it's the same guy I am thinking of he worked with me in Iraq and is a solid guy.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

Reportedly, TR just had an ND into a student's car recently. Down in CA: Folsom Shooting Club/Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. Fortunately they just shot out some tires, rather than killing/injuring someone or causing serious permanent damage to property. A student who requested a refund at that point was denied, from the YELP reviews. Tactical Response has been permanently barred from that range by the management- who found out about the ND from other sources, because TR didn't file an incident report.

Completely avoidable and unnecessary because the proximate cause of the ND was throwing a gun on the ground and grinding it into the dirt with a foot to make a point to students not to baby their fancy guns. The point could be made in literally a hundred other ways.

http://bearingarms.com/tactical-response-banned-instructor-negligently-discharges-students-truck/

TR response:

 

[Johnnny13]

This is a ridiculous response. Unfortunately this just adds fuel to those who are against gun ownership. They have had ND's before, the throw your gun on the ground has been done numerous times in their classes, and their drills seem to cater to more of a "Gun Adventure" then legitimate training. He also claimed that the gun dropping doesn't happen and then added at the end that it is part of their classes. I honestly was going to leave this alone but this video and his antics in general are very frustrating.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

This is a ridiculous response. Unfortunately this just adds fuel to those who are against gun ownership. They have had ND's before, the throw your gun on the ground has been done numerous times in their classes, and their drills seem to cater to more of a "Gun Adventure" then legitimate training. He also claimed that the gun dropping doesn't happen and then added at the end that it is part of their classes. I honestly was going to leave this alone but this video and his antics in general are very frustrating.

Yeager logic: I know you all made really good points about my company being a joke, so I'll just berate you and rationalize things to make myself feel better!

 

[Johnnny13]

Here's anther fantastic endorsement. It pretty much follows everything I've seen on youtube when showing their training.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_9_19/230811_Tactical_Response___Dont_waste_your_time_or_your_money.html

 

[Thebastidge]

So:

-don't criticize me, I'm too delicate. Please don't say mean things.
-hey did I mention I don't like it when kids get cancer... That makes me a good guy, right?
-I'll throw my "friend and employee" under the bus if you just don't say mean things, but it hurts me... But I'll do it in a hot second.
-frack the greater community, I don't owe you shhhhht, how dare you criticize me!

I stopped watching right there.

I have no real stake in this guy one way or the other but that is lame. Part of all of my classes is "don't be an unsafe douche in public where the ignorant and undecided will take the wrong lesson and start to oppose our civil rights."

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

Yeager's attitude just bugs me. I remember asking a question on his Facebook page (comment section) that was very innocuous and was actually agreeing with what he was posting about at the time.

I was blocked. That told me all I need to know.

 

[wichaka]

Trying to figger out why doesn't a group of 4-5 get together and train...once a month or so.

There's enough knowledge on this board for it to happen abs work.

Quite the waste of hundreds of dollars per class, when there's more than enough knowledge here.

 

[Johnnny13]

I offered to help some people out in Central Oregon a few months back but there weren't any takers.

 

[Thebastidge]

Largely, the reasons stated up-thread: insurance, venue cost, and trying to make a living. Paying professionals for their services is not a waste of money.

 

[David Bowman]

Throwing your guns on the ground is just fudge-knuckling stupid.

We teach you how to fight with your gun in your hand.

Like I said before, if you want to train, come see us or PM me and we can talk. I offer great rates for NWFA members on private instruction.

 

[wichaka]

No insurance cost for a knowledgeable group getting together. Venues are not hard to find, need to do some research and something usable can be found, again without cost.

With that cost savings, one can apply that to the peripherals of training...targets, stands, steel...and of course ammo.

Getting some direction from professionals is a good start...taking off on your own enhances what you've learned by putting into consistent practice.

 

[IheartSig]

I stopped looking for local training after the "instructor" in Albany almost killed himself by shooting at a car door filled with tannerite.

Good training is rarely cheap. You usually get what you pay for.

There are hundreds of "trainers" that think they are qualified to train in areas they have no experience in. They charge a lot of money for a little practical knowledge. Do your research.

Yeager is a massive Tool. I wouldn't attend a course he is affiliated with if it was free.

 

[SCARed]

I stopped looking for local training after the "instructor" in Albany almost killed himself by shooting at a car door filled with tannerite.

Yet you still have no idea what actually happened. You should know not to believe what the media puts out.

 

[IheartSig]

Did he shoot a car door filled with Tannerite? Did the instructor hurt himself so badly that they had to evac him to the hospital? What is it I don't understand? You were obviously there, so tell us.

Should we talk about how the same guy lost an AR at a different event and didn't even realize it until a couple weeks after?

It was all over Facebook, Mr. Turner himself even posted about it. What is it you would like everyone to know, since you clearly think there's some element of misinformation to this.

 

[SCARed]

No, he did not shoot a car door filled with tannerite. He didn't even fire the shot that detonated it. It was the small container of tannerite that was used, and it was sitting ON a car door that had been used for other training during the day. This was the last of 4 tannerite loads done at the same spot.
The attendees were about 50+yrds away and he was even further back behind them talking to someone else when the shot was fired.

In this instance, it was a freak accident, and I'll speak up about it only because I know more than what the media badly reported.


I won't comment about the missing/stolen rifle as I don't know much about it.
And as far as knowledge, if govt agencies within and outside of the US are paying him to instruct, he probably does know a thing or two.

No, I'm not a Fanboi of his, I've only met him once or twice, but from what I've seen and heard about him, he does have a positive reputation amongst people who are far more qualified to rate him as an instructor.

 

[IheartSig]

I'm not trying to pick on anyone in particular. Training accidents can happen. It's part of the risk.

My point is, one should not assume that simply because someone claims to be an instructor, they are competent or able to provide reliable training.

A LLC and a fancy acronym alone do not make a solid, experienced, knowledgeable Cadre of instructors.

When there are concerns present, especially when training along side strangers, with strangers, people need to consider this.

YMMV I guess.