Rifle OAL vs. barrel length

The Heretic · Oct 1, 2016

I am pretty sure I know the answer to this, indeed it might be a stupid question, but I want to be sure and clear about it.

Just watched .22 Plinkster review the ZK-22 bullpup stock.

He made a number of comments about having to track down an 18.5" barrel to meet the 26" OAL length requirement, and yet, he was shooting it with a suppressor that was about 4" in length.

Here is the question/comment:

OAL includes items that can be taken off the long gun. This includes any muzzle device, permanent or not. For barrel length, the barrel must have a "permanent" length of 16+ inches. But the overall length of a long gun can include a muzzle device that isn't permanent, and/or any other non-permanent item that makes the OAL 26+, such as a butt-pad, muzzle device, shroud, folding stock when extended, etc.

Correct?

The Heretic · Oct 1, 2016

Still searching for the complete official definition of OAL (how it is measured, including removable devices), just a lot of references to it.

Found some quotes of a technical letter in a forum, but without the original letter I have no idea if is true or not.

Haven't found anything official on the ATF site yet.

There are references/cites/etc. as to measuring barrel length, but that is a separate (albeit related) measurement.

One bullpup stock manufacturer state that a muzzle device does not count towards the OAL, but gave no cite of regulation or law.

308 · Oct 1, 2016

The Heretic said:
OAL includes items that can be taken off the long gun.
Correct?

Incorrect.
If that were true, then someone with a 14" M4 would not have to permanently attach the muzzle device.

The 26" OAL with an AR is the OAL with the collapsible stock extended, and the minimum length of the barrel has to be 16". This could mean a 7" DPMS kitty kat with a 9" suppressor or muzzle device permanently attached.

The Tavor is just slightly over 26" with the 16" bbl.

I have seen a bullpup kit for the 10/22 and it states implicitly that the barrel needs to be 18"+ for the kit to be legal. That means those of us with 16" 10/22s can't use that kit.

Minimum barrel length for a shotty is 18"

Which firearms are regulated under the NFA? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download

The Heretic · Oct 1, 2016

308 said:
Incorrect.
If that were true, then someone with a 14" M4 would not have to permanently attach the muzzle device.

There is the barrel length and the OAL length. A 14" barrel on any long gun would make it an NFA weapon regardless of the overall length. A long gun with an OAL length of less than 26" is an NFA weapon regardless of the barrel length. They are two separate lengths.

The 26" OAL with an AR is the OAL with the collapsible stock extended, and the minimum length of the barrel has to be 16". This could mean a 7" DPMS kitty kat with a 9" suppressor or muzzle device permanently attached.

The Tavor is just slightly over 26" with the 16" bbl.

I have seen a bullpup kit for the 10/22 and it states implicitly that the barrel needs to be 18"+ for the kit to be legal. That means those of us with 16" 10/22s can't use that kit.

Minimum barrel length for a shotty is 18"

Which firearms are regulated under the NFA? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download

Agreed. I referred to the bullpup stock maker - HTA. But I wanted an official cite.

The question is whether the OAL measurement includes any removable muzzle device.

Apparently it does.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/atf-p-5320-8pdf-0/download

"The overall length of a firearm is the distance between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion of the weapon measured on a line parallel to the axis of the bore."

The thing is the law is not consistent in its logic. E.G., folding stocks.

Also, most buttstocks can be removed, as can the buttpad (which opens a question as to slip-on buttpads) - but they are the "rearmost portion of the weapon" even though they can be removed much easier than a silver soldered muzzle brake. But a muzzle device has to be "permanent"? Not logically consistent.

But the law is the law and their interpretation of the law seems to be that a muzzle device that isn't "permanent" is not included in the OAL measurement.

I have my answer (to a point - there are still questions about barrel shrouds, another "grey area" IMO - from what I have read, they have to be permanent too in order to be counted, even though they are not part of the barrel and can extend well beyond the muzzle of the barrel - indeed many do).

Thanks.