Proposal - No Fly List = No Buy Guns

RicInOR · Feb 28, 2018

2/27/18
Senators Propose Bill Blocking Those on No-Fly List From Buying Guns

Yep we have discussed this before.

The senators revived the Terrorist Firearms Prevention Act, describing the bill as a common-sense measure that would make Americans safer, the Hill reported.

Sen. Susan Collins (R., Maine) said in a statement that the legislation would not infringe upon the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens.

"If you are considered to be too dangerous to fly on an airplane, you should not be able to buy a firearm," Collins said. "This bill is a sensible step we can take right now to reform our nation's gun laws while protecting the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans."

Senator Collins - Who is on that list? How did they get there? What happened to due process? How do you get off the list?

Criticism of the bill in the past for curtailing a constitutional right through secret government lists.

"If we suspect someone of being a terrorist and think it would be too dangerous to let that person on a plane, it's probably not a good idea to let that person buy a gun either," Nelson said. "That's just common sense." Sens. Tammy Baldwin (D., Wis.), Jeff Flake (R., Ariz.), Martin Heinrich (D., N.M.), Heidi Heitkamp (D., N.D.), Angus King (I., Maine), Joe Manchin (D., W.Va.), and Pat Toomey (R., Pa.), also support the bill.

see also NWFA Threads:
No fly list and gun purchases
Donald Trump Now Supports No Fly List Gun Ban
Obama Wants No Fly Lists To Abolish 2nd Amendment Rights
No Fly List -vs- Gun Purchases - DOJ Says List to be Used
Connecticut to use no fly list to ban gun sales
Government Lists

cigars · Feb 28, 2018

Exactly... if the process to get on that list wasn't so blurry then maybe it would be worth discussing.

KKG · Feb 28, 2018

cigars said:
Exactly... if the process to get on that list wasn't so blurry then maybe it would be worth discussing.

None of that "Stuff" should ever be discussed! It's just another way/reason for someone trying to take away my Rights! If someone is on that list it's my opinion that they should be in Jail not trying to get on an airplane.

awshoot · Mar 1, 2018

KKG said:
None of that "Stuff" should ever be discussed! It's just another way/reason for someone trying to take away my Rights! If someone is on that list it's my opinion that they should be in Jail not trying to get on an airplane.

The entire Bill of Rights matters -- secret lists with secret evidence and no path for due process is something no supporter of the 2nd Amendment should consider reasonable -- if you let the government run roughshod over the other amendments, you can be sure they'll be running over the rights you care about too.

etrain16 · Mar 1, 2018

You know this is a bad idea when even the ACLU is against it. Hopefully we have plenty of folks in Congress that do believe in due process.

awshoot · Mar 1, 2018

etrain16 said:
You know this is a bad idea when even the ACLU is against it. Hopefully we have plenty of folks in Congress that do believe in due process.

I see the ACLU as the NRA for the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments. One of the reasons I'm a card carrying member of both the NRA and ACLU, is that the Bill or Rights needs all the protectors it can get.

Goosebrown · Mar 1, 2018

Being on a secret list is not due process. Totally unconstitutional law.

Boboclown · Mar 1, 2018

How do you get off the list? First you have to find out you're on it in the first place, they don't tell you until you try to fly. After that, you spend a lot of money to prove you shouldn't be on it.

Yeup, and apparently some people I know think that's a good idea. Guess not many people these days understand due process.

awshoot · Mar 1, 2018

Boboclown said:
How do you get off the list? First you have to find out you're on it in the first place, they don't tell you until you try to fly. After that, you spend a lot of money to prove you shouldn't be on it.

Yeup, and apparently some people I know think that's a good idea. Guess not many people these days understand due process.

Part of the problem is that there is no established way to have a neutral third party adjudicate whether or not you should be on the list. That neutral review is the core of due process.

etrain16 · Mar 1, 2018

awshoot said:
I see the ACLU as the NRA for the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments. One of the reasons I'm a card carrying member of both the NRA and ACLU, is that the Bill or Rights needs all the protectors it can get.

Except they have made it clear they have little to no interest in defending the 2nd. Odd to me that they would support the 1st, 4th and 5th yet fail to defend the 2nd.

Boboclown · Mar 1, 2018

awshoot said:
Part of the problem is that there is no established way to have a neutral third party adjudicate whether or not you should be on the list. That neutral review is the core of due process.

Which is why its not a good idea. People who support it are just chipping away at our rights.

awshoot · Mar 1, 2018

etrain16 said:
Except they have made it clear they have little to no interest in defending the 2nd. Odd to me that they would support the 1st, 4th and 5th yet fail to defend the 2nd.

Well, the NRA is specialized on the 2nd and its unique issues. The 4th and 5th are rooted in the same philosophy (right to privacy and freedom from oppression) -- it is often that the gov violates 4 & 5 on its way infringing the 1st, so it makes sense for the ACLU to specialize on that different aspect. But you are correct, there is not much overlap between the NRA and ACLU, which is why I cover the bases and donate to both.

Boboclown · Mar 1, 2018

etrain16 said:
Except they have made it clear they have little to no interest in defending the 2nd. Odd to me that they would support the 1st, 4th and 5th yet fail to defend the 2nd.

They view the 2nd Amendment as a collective right instead of a individual right is why. I disagree with them on that but it is what they believe.