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Private Parties Buying/Selling Firearms - What are the Requirements?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by 180gr40, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. 180gr40

    180gr40 N. Snohomish Co., Washington Member

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    I'm thinking that others here might have this same concern since this just seems too good to be true. How do private parties sell their firearms to each other in their given states of residence? Do you get a copy of an FFL transfer form? Do you take a copy of buyers' WA DL, CPL, etc? Do you make a bill of sale with both parties' signatures? Do you take fingerprints of the buyer? After selling a firearms to another private party, do you go to the local Sheriff's office and say that you want your sold gun taken out of your name? What in the world do you do? What have you guys done in the past?

    I consider myself obsessed with freedom; a freedom which is far beyond what resides in this country now. I'd love to be able to purchase firearms without the gubment knowing what the heck I'm doing. Some help and clarification here would be very helpful because I'd like to purchase firearms without having to sign some gestapo piece of paper!
     
  2. t.huynh

    t.huynh vancouver, wa Active Member

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    Check ID , check chl, count cash, then give em the gun.
     
  3. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    count cash, then give em the gun.
     
  4. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    A bill of sale is not required but some want the info for a CYA if it is ever used illegally. All that is required is to verify that the seller/purchaser is a resident of the same state and if they are buying that they are legal to have firearms (simply ask). There is no requirment to do paperwork of any sort or notify any government agency. Look at the firearm if you like it hand the cash over and part ways.

    If you choose to buy from a person in another state that is when a FFL/dealer would be involved to complete the required paperwork. All interstate gun purchases must go through a licensed dealer.
     
  5. jdub75

    jdub75 PNW Well-Known Member

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  6. 180gr40

    180gr40 N. Snohomish Co., Washington Member

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    Thanks a lot guys! In the mouth of two or three (or more) witnesses shall every word be established (2 Corinthians 13:1). It still seems too good to be true, but I'm definitely willing to do it. I understand fully regarding out-of-state sales/transfers. I just wanted to know what I was allowed to do within WA state. Guess I'd better start hunting for some more firearms before they take that right away from us too.
     
  7. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Not too good to be true.

    ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

    Here is the short text so read the link,

    Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

    Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?
    A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]



    Those are the rules. There is no requirement for bill of sales or anything else. For me I trade cash for guns, nothing more or less. Of course if you have a bad vibe either selling or buying DONT do the sale. I have refused sales I did not feel go about even when the buyer had DL, CPL.

    Also since you are in WA read this, then keep it book marked and refer to it often, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41
     
  8. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    I actually have a bill of sale form I've drafted with phrases like "seller certifies under penalty of perjury that he is the lawful owner of the firearm being sold" and "buyer certifies under penalty of perjury that he is legally eligible to own a firearm under State and Federal Law," that's designed as both CYA and Bill of Sale at once--we each sign both sides and note DL/ID #s, they get one half and I the other.
     
  9. USMC1345

    USMC1345 Gresham, OR Member

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    All of these options are perfectly legal in WA and OR, and I have done sales using each of these methods, depending how much documentation the other party required. I prefer no bill of sale, but am not opposed to using them. I purchase most of my firearms from dealers and have a CHL, so the government already knows I have (or had before the tragic boating accident) guns. They just don't know how many and what kind.
     
  10. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it's a matter of personal preference as it should be.
     
  11. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Cash and carry
     
  12. mpmarty

    mpmarty Oregon Mountains Member

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    Since all my firearms were purchased privately there is no reason for me to be concerned about the sale of one or more of them. I haven't sold a firearm in many years but have certainly traded some for others.
     
  13. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    For the record, I drew up my form as a buyer so that just in case some fool with a badge (note: not anti-cop, just anti-idiot, some of whom are in the LE sector) in the event of a Katrina tried to pull a "prove you own it".
     
  14. 180gr40

    180gr40 N. Snohomish Co., Washington Member

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    Excellent idea! That's what I was thinking about forming, but I wasn't sure if other buyers/sellers would go it.
     
  15. 180gr40

    180gr40 N. Snohomish Co., Washington Member

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    This is another excellent idea I've been worried about and it brings up another question I have regarding having firearms that are in your name during a "Katrina" marshall law type incident where National Guardsmen walk through the streets with sheets of paper stating who lives where and which ones have registered firearms. Any ideas on how to deal with them and not have to surrender your arms? Seriously, I've done a lot of thinking about this and the main reason I'd like to buy and sell arms privately is because I really don't want the G-men knowing what I have - period!

    My first job in life is to provide for and PROTECT my family: In my case I'd prefer that my wife has access to one or more firearms if I'm away. Sure wouldn't want the criminals trailing the U.S. Army to find out whose most vulnerable to attack and/or loot from next. Sounds paranoid I know, but I think that you've gotta be in our day and age.
     
  16. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    Simple solution: don't own registered guns--WA handgun registry is only mandatory when you buy from an FFL, not for private sale, and it doesn't register rifles or shotguns. This is why I'll buy long guns retail, and pistols only at WAC meets or from private sellers...
     
  17. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    WA has NO, I repeat NO registration on ANY firearms. IF WA did you would HAVE to have a bill of sale and would HAVE to let the state know anytime you moved with the gun or anytime it was sold. WA does have the 4473 just like any other state which is a background check when buying from a FFL.

    Of course if you own NFA items those ARE registered and you have to keep that paperwork to prove it. That is on a federal level not state.
     
    Redcap and (deleted member) like this.
  18. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    And thats like saying OR doesn't have a registry only 4473.... if you believe that I'm sorry.
     
  19. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    "Well golly officer,I sold that gun last year!" And you don't need a bill of sale in this state,so they don't get an answer to who you sold it to.
    Even if you keep one of the BOS forms you are making up,it doesn't really matter.You aren't under any obligation to keep a record of who you sold your guns to.
    Heck the gun may have changed hands 10 times before they try to come get them.
    The boating accident could have happened too.

    They may come and check for your guns.They may have a list of what you bought from an FFL. But I'm sure they realize,especially with all the gun shows,that their job to know exactly what we have will be futile.

    I would guess that half or more of gun owners are like me and find something they like or want more after a while.Changing the collection all the time,since they can't afford to just keep buying.
    Then there is some that buy and never sell.Half or more of them probably don't buy from dealers.So the gun confiscation job won't be all that easy for them.
     
  20. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    Washington State does maintain a record, including description of and sn of handguns purchased through a ffl in Washington State. That is what the extra paperwork is for on a handgun purchase. Goes to local LE and on to state. Law enforcement has access to these records. The state says they don't have registration as they don't require private party sales to submit paperwork. It is optional for the private party sale.