Primer Recharging Project

[almar]

So for the fun of it, i quickly trimmed down the cup to the approximate height and loaded it, the anvil fits nicely. I then primed a 45 case and the fit felt EXACTLY like a new primer, smooth, even and snug. It fired perfectly.

 

[awshoot]

So good news/bad news! The bad news is that i may have to do more machining. The good news is that the thing works, all i did tonight was add a thin film of oil to the sheet and it formed a cup, i did not even increase the radius or buff the cone yet! So...its getting there. Problem is that cups walls are way to high and uneven. Is it stretching? I think so. Am i off in my calculations of the disk diameter? Is .180 id + 2(.119) not .418? The copper punctured disk is without the oil the brass cup is with the oil, they are next to a used commercial primer.
View attachment 836068
I will obviously work on the radius and buff it to a mirror finish before thinking about more machining, but its encouraging.

You know how when you look at a commercial primer very closely, it seems like the inside edge is chamfered? Do you think that's the result of some sort of cutting mechanism or trimming mechanism? I would expect manufacturers would want the primer to come out of the die with out any extra work -- is there way to fashion some sort of cutter inside the die?

 

[awshoot]

So for the fun of it, i quickly trimmed down the cup to the approximate height and loaded it, the anvil fits nicely. I then primed a 45 case and the fit felt EXACTLY like a new primer, smooth, even and snug. It fired perfectly. View attachment 836084 View attachment 836085 View attachment 836086

Fantastic -- the firing pin mark is so much more confidence inspiring than a caved in primer base on re-used cups.

 

[almar]

It's very likely that they trim it after the draw. I don't know if you guys know about Corbin and the work he does, he makes precision presses and dies for bullet swaging/jacket drawing but he makes a trimming die for the jackets after drawing. I'm no expert at this but i think it makes sense that drawing will cause uneven edges. As far as including it in the die...that would be ideal, not sure how to do it..

For a 2 stage setup, forming/trimming, something like the Corbin ET2 die would be good i believe:

Corbin Expand and Trim Die, ET-2-S

 

[Lesliet]

From what I've read/watched, the end of the cup comes out "close enough" to the right shape, and they only need to tumble them, at that point, to clean up sharp edges.

 

[almar]

That primer cup material is not sufficient. I tried it with a low pressure 45 acp and it pierced...i wonder if i can use spent 22lr casings and trim them.

 

[almar]

Yes i can!! It formed perfectly but obviously needed trimming! And its free!! I think im on to something here!

without the disk cutting part the die becomes alot easier to make and use, but trimming is required.

 

[awshoot]

Yes i can!! It formed perfectly but obviously needed trimming! And its free!! I think im on to something here! View attachment 836685

without the disk cutting part the die becomes alot easier to make and use, but trimming is required.

I printed one of these for myself ages ago -- perfect tool for small jobs. By making a jig to hold the spent shell, a person could be cutting off the ends of 22s pretty fast!

Table saw for Dremel 4000 (with drill bracket Fixed) by oikos

Perfect for a straight cut with the materials such as wood, steel, epoxy or small screws. Use the table extension for larger piece or for more stability and control, but also protects spark when cutting steel. INFO: To adapt other drill you can try with "All Motor Bracket.STL" Help me replace...

www.thingiverse.com

 

[almar]

hey that's pretty nice! You can certainly make quick trims with that! What do you think aweshoot? Do you prefer the idea of using spent 22.lr casings or stamping from brass sheets? There is a give and a take for both.

 

[almar]

i will have to test the .22lr material before going any further though. it cant show signs of failure like the other stuff. I got into designing a whole new die that would both form and trim in one stroke but there is no use in going further with it if the material is incapable of handling pressure.

 

[awshoot]

hey that's pretty nice! You can certainly make quick trims with that! What do you think aweshoot? Do you prefer the idea of using spent 22.lr casings or stamping from brass sheets? There is a give and a take for both.

.22s for sure. All they cost is a mild backache and half an hour at the pit! ;-)

 

[awshoot]

i will have to test the .22lr material before going any further though. it cant show signs of failure like the other stuff. I got into designing a whole new die that would both form and trim in one stroke but there is no use in going further with it if the material is incapable of handling pressure.

I'm not kidding about buying a set of dies from you if get it down. I checked out the Corbin site you linked to, looked at the price list and so there's no need to be shy about quoting their real value -- I won't choke. Doing things in multiple steps is not an issue for me either -- it's just an excuse to sit out in my shop and listen to more podcasts. I'm totally cool with that.

With trimming, would it be possible to make a setup that would allow a person to trim to SPP height and SRP height? I can't really visualize the trimming process so I'm not sure if I'm asking the impossible. The cup diameter is, as I understand it, the same but SRPs are a tad longer than SPPs.

Anyway -- I love the work you're doing.

EDIT: I'm inspired to go to the range tomorrow and make some .22LR empties. ;-)

 

[almar]

I still have to validate the material, it passed easily with 18000 psi, i have a 40ksi round ready to test later. If all this works well i will get to making the die. Im certainly not set up to mass produce these things like corbin, all i have is a sherline mill and lathe. Still waiting for my 5c headstock too. I wont be charging corbin prices though dont worry. He has a 1 year backlog and very little competition. Please dont be too hopeful yet, this is still the research and devellopment stage, lots of ups and downs...the problem i see with using .22lr is that when you need to make your own primers, well .22lr is also rare, so people shoot it less. I am focused on lrp and lpp right now, which is almost amazing how well it its matched for .22lr casings but i think srp and spp is possible too we will see. Elvis ammo on yt is working on a non corrossive mix. I tried going down that road a few months ago but hit a snag, one of the ingredients is a class 1 chemical on the DEA list...yeah not a good idea to order that but man non corrosive primers would be great. Im busy with other stuff this weekend, but this will get done soon.

 

[almar]

I think it performed well, less flattening and less indent than the factory primer next to it. Any thoughts...this is a max load for 460 rowland.



Awshoot with the idea i have, yes it will be possible to trim both lengths.

 

[awshoot]

I think it performed well, less flattening and less indent than the factory primer next to it. Any thoughts...this is a max load for 460 rowland.

View attachment 838531

Awshoot with the idea i have, yes it will be possible to trim both lengths.

That looks great. I would say the commercial primer cup is either softer or thinner metal -- the .22 cup probably needs a good whack by the firing pin, but the other side of that is that magnums wouldn't blow through primer cup material. I would definitely shoot those without anxiety.

I was not familiar with .460 Rowland until I read about it today -- it sounds like a pretty beefy cartridge (supposed to recreate 44 mag in a semi-auto package). Is yours striker or hammer fired?

Personally, I don't have any striker fired guns so I'd be happy with hard primer cups for plinking, but I wonder if striker fired guns might have what seems like light strikes (though really just heavy cup metal) and a failure to ignite. I say this because if you got things to a point you wanted to market them, being able to cut discs out of thinner metal might be a desirable feature (or add on separate die).

 

[almar]

I built a 6 inch long slide 1911 to shoot the 460. Its one of my favorite calibers, it recoils like a mid range 357 but puts out about 1100 ftlbs with the load i used. I just loaded a 500 magnum with 41 grains of enforcer under a 300 grain pill and one of the test primers, will try it out tomorrow.

This is the 460, the 460 is basically a 45 acp magnum.


I only have one strikerfire, it a 9mm. You have a point there...when i get to making spp ill test it.

I dont think i can wait to make the dies, the other stuff will have to wait...

 

[almar]

Nope, no go for .22lr casings. Dang! And 41 grains was the minimum charge. Its likely that the indent on the 460 was not shallow, it was just pushed out. The few extra thousand psi on the 500 mag round was all it took to push through. This is why the cup die specs use .030 brass and draw it out to thinner sides. There is no way you can cut .03 disks on a reloading press, i cant even cut .016 even with almost breaking the press with the applied force. I think the corbin press might be able to handle .016 but there isnt much safety factor there, the .22 casings seem to be about .014. The .22 lr casings can handle only up to about 30ksi safely...not much more than 45 acp. The 460 was about 35 ksi i would say...Told you not to get too excited.

 

[awshoot]

I built a 6 inch long slide 1911 to shoot the 460. Its one of my favorite calibers, it recoils like a mid range 357 but puts out about 1100 ftlbs with the load i used. I just loaded a 500 magnum with 41 grains of enforcer under a 300 grain pill and one of the test primers, will try it out tomorrow.

This is the 460, the 460 is basically a 45 acp magnum.
View attachment 838734

I only have one strikerfire, it a 9mm. You have a point there...when i get to making spp ill test it.

I dont think i can wait to make the dies, the other stuff will have to wait...

Man -- that's some nice detail -- right down to those beautiful grip screws!