Pre 64 Winchester 94 .30 WCF Butt stock

[WinchesterColt]

I'd have to get the photos off of Jarhead's listing, which might not show the tang - the gun is an hour away waiting for the background check to go through.

It does look like the newer stock might fit with some careful shaping. How would you do it? Make a template of the tang, mark the stock then carefully carve away the excess?

Looks like mine's a little different still, but possibly workable. Let's see if I can post the photo Jarhead took... I'll just give you the link to the photo -

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/attachments/669a351d-11a7-4048-a920-f9a3eba3bbe0-jpeg.732848/

 

[RVTECH]

Looks more like the 1899 than the post '64.

Oh, I think I would start by sliding it on if its tight start working on the inside edges of the the tang slot at the point where it starts to get tight and gently remove wood LITTLE BY LITTLE and start sliding the stock forward. Easy does it.

When you get to the tang flare you could try to make a template out of cardboard. Cut and shape it to the tang flare and lay it out on the stock.

Again - little by little and take it slow!

 

[jbett98]

There's some nice leather recoil pads that would hide that messed up butt stock.
You could lengthen or shorten the stock to fit your length of pull and the leather pad would make it comfortable to shoot until you find an original replacement.
I bought a Chiappa 1892 .357 magnum leever action rifle that had a shortened stock (the owner threw away the cresent metal butt plate and the cutoff wood) so I made my own leather pad to cover it up.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

There's some nice leather recoil pads that would hide that messed up butt stock.
You could lengthen or shorten the stock to fit your length of pull and the leather pad would make it comfortable to shoot until you find an original replacement.
I bought a Chiappa 1892 .357 magnum leever action rifle that had a shortened stock (the owner threw away the cresent metal butt plate and the cutoff wood) so I made my own leather pad to cover it up.

View attachment 777581

Excellent idea here....thanks for posting this.....!
Andy

 

[WinchesterColt]

That's another option. So many different possibilities!

I never would have guessed there could be so many little details in replacing this stock. Good thing I have you guys to lean on.

I also find it amazing when people do things like shorten the stock and toss the butt plate. Damn previous owners!!!

But isn't that the case with any old stuff you find? Seems there's a period where something is just old junk - and if it survives that phase, eventually comes up in value and is worth repairing/restoring. I've seen that in old cars and motorcycles and tools and a lot of stuff. Hard to imagine guns going that route as well, but I guess so.

Got my fingers crossed the stock wasn't cut - but won't know that till I collect the gun and take a measurement. After all this talk, I'll be taking a completely new look at this gun. A whole different level of appreciation.

I joined the Winchester Collectors site and entered the serial number in their calculator. Came up with 1937. You guys are saying it's more like 1941? Kind of a gray period in there? But that tells me it's definitely before WWII.

 

[RVTECH]

I also find it amazing when people do things like shorten the stock and toss the butt plate. Damn previous owners!!!

The pic I posted of the stock with the flat steel buttplate sandwiched by a later plastic one is on my '66 100 year commemorative.

The original owner had it restocked and shaped it for the later style steel shotgun style buttplate and did not retain the original stock with its original crescent style. When the person cut the stock I suspect he measured the original but when he cut it for the shotgun style plate that in effect shortened it and it was a little short for me on LOP. I found a later style plastic buttplate in my 'gun junk' one day and matched it up to the steel plate and it was a perfect fit so I added it for a little extra length. Not original but it's a shooter so no biggee.

While the stock is a beautiful piece of wood the tang angles on the stock were also cut incorrectly which on a Mod 94 can affect the operation of the rifle. I had to cut some thin shims to properly correct this and got it working pretty well. The forestock was also cut incorrectly and it has a little bit of movement which I still need to do something about as it is a little irritating. I may glass bed it which will correct this problem.

It is on the left in this picture

 

[WinchesterColt]

What a couple of gorgeous rifles! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Deavis]

Crescent like a moon or crested for the top crest at the heel? I've heard both over the years.

 

[jbett98]

Here's my 1938 Winchester 94 that was found hidden in a basement wall and given to me.

 

[Mark W.]

A 1894 rifle will have a nose cap on the forestock no matter the barrel length.

 

[orygun]

I've "heard" you all talking, yet I've not seen a pic of the buttplate known as the carbine style. Hard to see in this pic (the only one I have available right this minute), but it's stamped steel that rolls over the top of the butt. 1917 Saddle Ring Carbine

 

[orygun]

I joined the Winchester Collectors site and entered the serial number in their calculator. Came up with 1937. You guys are saying it's more like 1941? Kind of a gray period in there? But that tells me it's definitely before WWII.

From what I've learned, the Winchester Collectors offer proper dating on serial numbers. And it's about the only one. I used to trust Proofhouse, but like most other Winchester serial/date lists, it's flawed.

 

[Ifishsum]

Correct year of manufacturer should be on the underside of the barrel near the receiver but you have to pull the handguard to see it.

 

[Spitpatch]

Andy54Hawken tried to clarify, Orygun supplied a picture.

Do not confuse "crescent" buttplate with "carbine" buttplate.

The true crescent buttplate was supplied on rifles (not all rifles but it was standard). It is the buttplate with sharp corners top and bottom, and no extending metal "strap" over the top of the wood.

The carbine buttplate is a gentler curve and has the short "strap" that extends over the top of the wood. This is for the older (saddle ring) carbines. You can see this strap on Orygun's nice Winchester. I cannot speak for the cutoff date when the carbines were supplied standard with a shotgun butt. It MAY be contemporary with the abandonment of the saddle ring (1925). The Collector's site can help with this. My guess is your carbine should have the shotgun butt. You may also find your wood from those guys. Your greatest chore will not be finding wood to fit. It will be making that wood match the wear/finish condition on the gun and forearm.

Shiny perfect recently finished wood will appear out of place.

I was quite happy to know that someone bought that rifle with intent (and I hope means) to get it back as close to original as possible. If you don't count your time in the project (only materials), and end up with an original-appearing gun, you got one heck of a bargain.

 

[Spitpatch]

Here is a carbine buttplate from a Saddle Ring Carbine of 1895-'96.

And, just to get Orygun's blood boiling and set him off on a mission of hope, here's the proper Saddle Ring Carbine rear sight. Away with that Marble's or King rifle rear sight that works so much better for hunting!



This carbine has provenance attributing it to "Flopping Bill Cantrell" who was a hand and enforcer on Granville Stuart's ranch near Lewistown, Montana.

Two stories explain his name: The "correct" explanation is that he could chop wood so fast you'd hear, "Flop! Flop!"

The more interesting explanation is that he may have been an epileptic and was given to ending up on the floor of the drinking establishment or bunkhouse in the throes of a fit, "flopping" around.

 

[WinchesterColt]

Spitpatch - You know, in a small way this reminds me of a car collector near me and a story of when he purchased an old 1905 Ford model K touring car - supposedly the only unrestored example in existence. The aficionados know where every one of the remaining cars are, so when he got it he was given an invitation (out of the blue) to bring it to Pebble Beach.

To me, the gun just looks like an old rifle, at times abused, but still not in bad shape overall. Taking a close look at it a few days ago after bringing it home, there were a number of things that caught my eye or didn't look right: the tang screw that holds the butt stuck out about three threads and the head was sunk a ways below level. The barrel strap that holds the forestock was pretty badly buggered. There was some rust and corrosion on the barrel, lever, hammer, and action. The butt had been sanded a little narrower on one side towards the end - probably in the action of fitting the Pachmayer pad.

But the action looks good, and the wood fits nice and tight.

It's missing the sight hood, but that was obvious from the original photos.

I'm fairly new to working on guns, but no stranger to fixing stuff and making things right. It's a challenge I find satisfying although really frustrating at times before I've figured out the puzzle. Several years back when all I had was a Ruger 22 semi auto pistol, a friend ordered a special screwdriver kit for guns and somehow wound up with two. So I got the second Wheeler set, and I'm really glad I did. I've used it a few times in the past, but it's sure coming in handy lately!

I was afraid the tang screw projected so far through the bottom side because something was wrong with the upper tang - like the screw hole had barely any 'bottom' and the head was almost going all the way through. When the screw was out the answer was obvious. Wrong screw! The head is a totally wrong shape. I made a washer to fit the screw that would also fit the hole in the tang. It works, and looks better, but the proper screw needs to be found.

The fore end strap - that was another matter and I lost some sleep over that one staying up till 2:30. The strap didn't want to come off it was so messed up. Sharp edges dug into the wood. It was STUCK! Once it was off, I carefully worked it over using different sized sockets clamped in the vise and a small hammer to reform the curves and flatten the burrs on the inner edges. Let me tell you, getting it to fit right wasn't an easy chore!

And then the retaining screw was bent - but straightening that was easy. Getting it to thread in wasn't. It wouldn't line up with the hole on the opposite side, which made no sense at all. Somehow the forearm was too long to allow the screw to fit through the notch in the barrel. I widened the notch slightly with no joy, then filed the receiver end and finally was able to thread it in. It took forever taking a few strokes with the file, putting it back together only to find it still wouldn't fit, then taking it back apart. Over and over until it finally fit. Seems to me, either the barrel or the fore end had been changed. But the fore end matches the butt - so who knows??? It's a mystery why things didn't align, but it obviously was a problem for a previous owner who got frustrated enough to pound on it with a hammer and even a screwdriver trying to jam it farther back.

It's got marble sights. Are those original? The front one took a little abuse on the right side from being tapped (pounded?) on and still sits a little to the right. Looking at the rear sight told me why - it also is cocked to the right. What can be done to better align it? What's the attachment point like?

I'd heard that a pre 1982 copper penny rubbed on steel will remove rust. Since one of those pennies wasn't readily available I tried something else. Guys have cleaned motorcycle mufflers with aluminum foil so I tried that and, yes, it works. It worked very well and didn't take much effort either. Sure left my hands black though.

I'll see what I can do to get some photos up, but that sort of thing isn't my strong point. The perfectionist in me wants to replace both the butt and fore end, and if the bluing and finish was perfect, then that would probably be a good way to go. There are some gouges and dents in the fore end ahead of the clamp, and I'm waiting on measurements for the length of a standard stock. If it hasn't been cut down, the next decision is whether to mount a stock butt plate and probably have to file it narrower to fit, or source a replacement butt and make it look original. I could keep this one with the butt pad for when I go out shooting.

You know, I'm a little blown away by the interest shown in this gun. I think it's pretty damn cool, but it's a little hard getting past the feeling it's rough and should be spiffed up like new. I was a little bit out-of-sorts after that late night session with it, but every time I've picked it up since the damage and patina bothers me less. I'm liking it more and more just the way it is.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Sounds like I'm talking to the right guys!

Ok - I think I'm starting to understand.

I've technically got a carbine, so it should work ok (comfort-wise) with the crescent, but not the carbine stock. It probably came with the shotgun style if I want to be absolutely correct about it. And that's probably the way I'll go with it.

Task1 sent me a message privately (so it wouldn't start a row) somewhat explaining all this, but somehow I'm not getting into my messages (it came on my phone, but responding from the phone is impossible. Always something, huh?) I'll get that worked out next.

Task mentioned the front sight hood is missing and the rear isn't correct. This poor gun! And here I thought it was pretty nice. LOL

Nah, it is a nice one - I just wish I didn't have to wait another four or five days for the background check to clear. Then another couple hours driving to pick it up. But hey, I aint complaining!!!

A very good resource for all things concerning wood for old rifles, especially Winchester 94's is Treebone Carving.

Treebone Carving

Treebone Carving is your source for 90% inlet and profiled stocks for single shot and lever action rifles.

www.treebonecarving.com

Get him on the phone and see what he has in stock and what he recommends. You'll be glad you did.


I especially love this one:

 

[orygun]

Here is a carbine buttplate from a Saddle Ring Carbine of 1895-'96.View attachment 779306

And, just to get Orygun's blood boiling and set him off on a mission of hope, here's the proper Saddle Ring Carbine rear sight. Away with that Marble's or King rifle rear sight that works so much better for hunting!

View attachment 779308

This carbine has provenance attributing it to "Flopping Bill Cantrell" who was a hand and enforcer on Granville Stuart's ranch near Lewistown, Montana.

Two stories explain his name: The "correct" explanation is that he could chop wood so fast you'd hear, "Flop! Flop!"

The more interesting explanation is that he may have been an epileptic and was given to ending up on the floor of the drinking establishment or bunkhouse in the throes of a fit, "flopping" around.

That's absolutely fantastic!
Seeing as my gun has two filled dovetails and one with the sight installed, I have no idea what came with mine. It also had the ring removed and the stud swaged, which was common with guys not liking the noise of the ring flapping. While I'll not chase a rear sight, I'd sure like to replace the ring. A leather bootlace does a good job of being a muffler. (See Daisy Red Ryder)

A very good resource for all things concerning wood for old rifles, especially Winchester 94's is Treebone Carving.

Treebone Carving

Treebone Carving is your source for 90% inlet and profiled stocks for single shot and lever action rifles.

www.treebonecarving.com

Get him on the phone and see what he has in stock and what he recommends. You'll be glad you did.

View attachment 779532
I especially love this one: View attachment 779533

Since the OP is in the market for a shotgun style buttplate, this is a good link. You'll notice he shys away from the carbine buttplate.

 

[orygun]

Correct year of manufacturer should be on the underside of the barrel near the receiver but you have to pull the handguard to see it.

Great info. Of course that's that's an angle I didn't take a pic of when I had it apart, but I need to strip it down anyway and will check.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

That's absolutely fantastic!
Seeing as my gun has two filled dovetails and one with the sight installed, I have no idea what came with mine. It also had the ring removed and the stud swaged, which was common with guys not liking the noise of the ring flapping. While I'll not chase a rear sight, I'd sure like to replace the ring. A leather bootlace does a good job of being a muffler. (See Daisy Red Ryder)

Since the OP is in the market for a shotgun style buttplate, this is a good link. You'll notice he shys away from the carbine buttplate.

Treebone has the buttplates too.