Pre 64 Winchester 94 .30 WCF Butt stock

[orygun]

Treebone has the buttplates too.

Possibly, but the correct option isn't always available. A lot depends on how original one wants to go. However the OP has a gun that Treebone makes a butt for, so it doesn't matter. I agree the shotgun style is most likely the correct one.
I'm kinda moving away from restocking mine for many reasons, but it wouldn't have been an easy deal for the Carbine butt plate. Treebone themselves mentions the multiple variations of the Carbine buttplate and basically says they do not want to make that butt. You'll notice it's not pictured. Other manufacturers do, but with any knowledge it's obvious the Carbine butt is a pain in the butt, if you want a new butt!

I seriously looked into Treebone when you (@ZigZagZeke ) mentioned them in a previous thread. They sure make nice looking stocks. I would recommend the OP take a good look at their stuff.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

You know, I'm a little blown away by the interest shown in this gun. I think it's pretty damn cool, but it's a little hard getting past the feeling it's rough and should be spiffed up like new. I was a little bit out-of-sorts after that late night session with it, but every time I've picked it up since the damage and patina bothers me less. I'm liking it more and more just the way it is.

My rolling block had been through a cabin fire. Fore stock burned so badly that someone discarded it and carved a new one out of a piece of hickory. The butt stock was half burned away, but the charred part had been filed off and sanded down. The metal had NO finish because someone had steel wooled it to remove the fire residue. It had sat in an unheated building for a lot of years, and the inside of the barrel looked like an old sewer pipe. It was originally a .38 Long rimfire, which are long out of production.

My rifle builder and I got it back to shooting condition with a complete restoration. I got wood from Treebone Carving. We lined the old octagon barrel and chambered it for .357 Mag. The action was worked over to make it center fire, and re-heat treated. Expensive, but worth every penny, as it was my great grandfather's rifle.


So do some restoration if you're so inclined, or enjoy your rifle the way it is. But don't be put off by the apparent magnitude of the task if you want to fix it.

 

[orygun]

@ZigZagZeke , did you have the barrel relined, or just rechambered?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

@ZigZagZeke , did you have the barrel relined, or just rechambered?

We got .357" rifled barrel liner from TJ's, I think through Brownell's. It's 5/8" OD and sold by the inch. So you basically drill out the barrel to 5/8" and slide the liner inside with the gunsmithing equivalent of JB Weld to keep it in place. It's invisible on mine. Any really good gunsmith should be able to do a reline on an antique barrel you don't want to lose. Mine is a 28" full octagon, and tapered 1/4" from breech to muzzle. Very hard to replace. My gunsmith also made rifle barrels from scratch, but couldn't duplicate the tapered octagon.

 

[WinchesterColt]

ZZZ - That thing is a work of art! And, of course, it had to be done since it was your great grandfather's. Too bad he can't see it now. Did he get it new?

Taking a closer look at my 94 I can see on the junction of the butt pad addition/walnut on the top side where there's a half circle. Looking closer I'm sure it's a fill piece for the last bit of the upper part of the crescent butt plate. It's possible the butt was 'flattened' without shortening it any - just removing the jutting parts of the crescent.

After looking at yours Zeke, I'm tempted to get both pieces from Treebone and save the originals for the woods.

 

[Spitpatch]

WC, that is a love story. That gun found YOU! Tang screws are easily available.

Orygun: I have info regarding actual Winchester contracted Saddle Rings. They are new, but old stock and I ordered one for a buddy some time ago and we "weathered it" to match the wear on his gun. This involved a very technical process meticulously performed by taking it outside and kicking it around on the concrete between the two of us off and on for about an hour, inspecting our progress at precise intervals. I'll see what I can find. I know I've got his name around here somewhere, as we corresponded some. Out of Florida.

As to sights, Winchester would install any sight available on special order. Very rare that a carbine would be shipped with a rifle sight, but VERY common for anyone hunting to replace the carbine sight with a Marble's or even better: King's. So, these are not really "wrong" on a carbine, just probably not what it came with.

An original carbine sight (as I pictured) may bring 200 dollars or more.

 

[Spitpatch]

Saddle Rings: (also busn card says Winchester parts, so WC heads up!)

Philip L. Michaud. WINTER:561-319-4819
SUMMER: 207-543-6086
Apparently, he's a snowbird.
Beware: My transaction with him was in 2012. Unfortunately these parts-hoarding guys are starting to take on all appearances of flies on a windowsill if you know what I mean, and entire fortunes of gun parts probably end up in landfills. I have no idea how old this guy is/was.

Also, more local for Winchester sights/parts: Larry Sabin out of Bandon. 541-347-2161 or cell 541-290-3346. Larry was in process of trying to sell his business last I saw him at Rickreall. Card says call after 6pm. This gentleman is a wealth of knowledge. Never saw him grab a book for an answer.

 

[WinchesterColt]

Spitpatch - I went back a page and checked out your photos. I'm starting to come up to speed on all this - not everything sinks in at first, you know.

That photo of the butt stock shows what I believe mine originally looked like. I think my stock was cut 1/2" back of the inletted area leaving a half circle to be filled.

So you're saying my carbine originally came with the ladder style you pictured?

I pulled the forend and sure enough! the date is stamped on the base of the barrel - 37.

You're in Forest Grove - five minutes away. How about I bring it over for your expert advice?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

ZZZ - That thing is a work of art! And, of course, it had to be done since it was your great grandfather's. Too bad he can't see it now. Did he get it new?

After looking at yours Zeke, I'm tempted to get both pieces from Treebone and save the originals for the woods.

My GGrandfather got it from his brother who bought it new and took it on a journey up the Rosebud River in the time of General Crook, Sitting Bull, and Custer. He came back to Ohio with the rifle, a set of buffalo horns, and a Sioux headdress. I have the rifle and horns, but I've never seen the headdress.

If you talk to George Peterson at Treebone Carving I'm sure he can tell you EXACTLY what your options are and what you need for new wood. I would do that before you spend any money, for sure. It looks like you have a couple of choices in styles of butt stocks. George knows these things inside and out. He saved me some headaches because the receiver width is different on my #1 Remington Sporter rifle than it is on the 99% of #1's that you see that are the military model. He pointed that out to me immediately and he had the correct butt stock for me.

 

[oa98pistol512]

Makes me want to restore the 1944 I picked up awhile back

 

[Spitpatch]

Spitpatch - I went back a page and checked out your photos. I'm starting to come up to speed on all this - not everything sinks in at first, you know.

That photo of the butt stock shows what I believe mine originally looked like. I think my stock was cut 1/2" back of the inletted area leaving a half circle to be filled.

So you're saying my carbine originally came with the ladder style you pictured?

I pulled the forend and sure enough! the date is stamped on the base of the barrel - 37.

You're in Forest Grove - five minutes away. How about I bring it over for your expert advice?

Your faith in me is entirely misplaced, Sir. My Winchesters do not number very many, and I AM the guy who ALWAYS has to reach for a book for the answer.
You'll have more experts (and perhaps a few blowhards) than you know what to do with if you start asking questions on that Collector's site.

Again: I'm without ANY knowledge about when the old style carbine buttplate went to shotgun style. I am also not familiar with transition years in sighting equipment. Those are pretty simple questions that some can answer off the top of their heads. I cannot. Saddle Ring went away in 1925 (according to a book). That's about what I know.

I own 3 '94's: the one pictured here, and two deer rifles (later guns made in '48 and '58). The 1948 is a .25-35. These later carbines came with Winchester sights on them and it is a more conventional sight in the style of a Marble's (not the ladder carbine). Again, I do NOT know when that happened.

 

[WinchesterColt]

SpitPatch - ok. Ok, you convinced me you're no expert.

So you're not a 10, more like a five or six - I get it. Well, consider where I'm at - 0 working up to a full 1. It'd be nice to have a real person to talk to. And besides, with a classy name like SpitPatch, I've gotta assume you're also into BP guns. I'm also just getting into those as well - and I don't have anyone to show me the ropes or give me a pat on the head. Nothing

Cool story, Zeke. The gun has some history (don't they all? - but this one's history is known) and that makes it even more special. But even without all that it's a really pretty piece.

I'm kind of afraid to talk to George at Treebone. I can see myself sliding down that slippery chute into a 400 dollar chunk of wood with a stock somewhere inside of it. I'm not sure I can afford two or three weeks solid cutting and filing and chiseling the stock out of it, because that's what happens when I get going on a project like that. Obsessed and that's all I'd do till it's done. It's bad enough bringing a 'new' gun home and messing with it for the next couple days getting everything right.

That Treebone site is a bad influence - it's already gotten me yearning for a Sharps - or possibly a cheaper alternative - a Whitworth. But then again, I've wanted a Whitworth ever since finding out about them in the late 80s. George suggests getting a Sharps action and getting one of his stocks to go with it. Of course I checked out the Sharps shop in MT, but didn't find the cost of the actions. Kinda scared to find out...

 

[jbett98]

I'd shoot it first and then see if I'd dump money into it.
It just might not be all that exciting of a Winchester after all.

 

[RVTECH]

and I don't have anyone to show me the ropes or give me a pat on the head. Nothing

Yea you do - those of us who are into BP here will do all we can for ya!

I'll be makin' BP smoke tomorrow (hopefully!)

 

[Spitpatch]

For what it's worth, here's the sight supplied on the 1948 .25-35. It may well resemble a current manufacture Model 94 sight.

It may also have been a contract sight built for Winchester by Marbles, Lyman or such. I dunno. No such markings.

 

[orygun]

Mine's like the one Spitpatch shows in the picture above, but his has a fancier elevator.

 

[WinchesterColt]

That's a much nicer sight. I wonder why mine were changed?

 

[RVTECH]

I wonder why mine were changed?

Over the years there were a lot of variations of rear sights on Mod 94s.

Is there a pic of yours posted? If so I may have missed it.

 

[orygun]

sniped from the original ad.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

If it were my 94 , I'd concentrate on getting the new stock and butt plate fitted , as well as finished to match the existing patina on the 94 and not worry too much about the rear sight.

Its an older 94 , one that has seen much use and looks to have some period alterations.

And as stated before by me and others , many variations of sights abound...Which are period correct , even if not exactly Winchester factory issue , or at least what is commonly thought of as Winchester factory issue....
Winchester used many different sights at the same time which makes saying that this sight or that sight is the one , that is correct for a specific 94 , difficult at best.

Yes Winchester had a "standard sight" for both rifles and carbines of a given era...I am just saying that there are many exceptions to this "rule"....
Exceptions that may be from the factory and not always a owner made , aftermarket , kinda of exception.
Andy