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Political name calling... Just my opinion.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by PMB, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. PMB

    PMB Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Hello neighbors. I just posted a PM to a patriotic member of NWFA. I am -well- aware that there are lotsa folks who will disagree with me on this topic, but I just want to be heard. We all have the right to free speech, just as we should have the natural right to self defense (2A.)

    This post and the PM are not meant to be telling anyone that he/she is wrong for their words or viewpoints... It's just my words and my viewpoint.


    "..... [ ....] I have been working pretty hard to convert some of my ANTI- 2A coworkers, relatives, friends, and even strangers to the light of what the 2A really means and what it is for.

    When a PRO 2A person uses a derogatory term like lib-tard, it so instantly prejudices some of the uneducated liberals against us that even some of them who COULD be educated go cold and solid into the anti- 2A camp.

    I have personally recruited about a dozen people who were afraid of guns and shooting by being friendly and inviting them shooting, a couple of them by even "tricking" them into shooting by going hiking or picnicking up in the national forest. :thumbup: A really quiet .22 (CCI's CB Longs are great in a bolt action!) and some of these people are regulars now.

    I would NEVER want a difference in opinion about other political issues to get in the way of recruiting for the most precious and important of our Natural Rights, the 2nd Amendment.

    Very surely, this is just my opinion friend. It HAS worked for me, and I hope it will work for others. Those that are 100% against this Natural Right aren't worth the effort of trying to educate (for me) but I still hope to set a good example.

    I understand that a lot of fellows are just angry about the condition we find ourselves in, but I hope that as a community we can be mellow but ever vigilant.

    Your compatriot,
    Mike "
     
    206thsense, K-22, Mikej and 19 others like this.
  2. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I've spoken on this exact subject before. We need to continue to help our members speak in a way that is not off putting. Me, being for the most part Democrat, (AND becoming somewhat disgusted with the FAR left), feel cut when terms like "Libtard" are used, or referring to the entire Democratic party as "The Enemy" and a need to "Destroy Them".

    Good post!

    Mike
     
  3. vertical ascent

    vertical ascent Vancouver Active Member

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    Name calling definitely doesn't help our cause, we want to set an example that the Pro 2A are not a bunch of "old angry white men" as the media portrays, because I certainly do not fit that category. People that doesnt know me would probably assume that I am far from being a Pro 2A gun owner. Let us keep our emotions in check when dealing or interacting with the "gun grabbers" let's show the world that we are the most level headed, educated, calm, cool and collective group.
    The best thing about the media is that, we can make the other side look foolish and inept if we show them the opposite of what they expect.
    Let us not play into their game plan.

    We are in control and we control the game.
     
  4. 1stklass

    1stklass salem oregon Well-Known Member

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    Of course we are the game changer, you cant change the game without the guns :gun14: LOL! I have thought for quite awhile all those poor people, (hopefully they dont but if things got bad) who were so anti gun, would be BEGGING for guns.... but then i read a book on the holocaust. Now i know they would still be screaming to take guns from people as they took their orders and marched headfirst into the firing line :gun04:
     
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  5. PMB

    PMB Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Hello Gunfixx, Thanks for your post. I understand that name calling occurs on both sides... That doesn't have a bearing on whether I feel that I will call someone a derogatory name.

    In no way does my stance interfere with what I believe is a fundamental right (responsibility even) to fight tyranny and the unfortunate belief by many that less guns equals less violence.
    Even with the few anti-gun people who I call friends, I am extremely clear about how the founding fathers insisted that the Natural Right to keep and bear arms was to prevent tyranny, and not for "sporting purposes." The US Supreme Court ruling of the NFA of 1934 indicated an understanding that the 2A was for MILITARY PURPOSES.

    By the way, I did not write that signature line, but think it is poignant and so clear about what the 2nd Amendment stands for. I have to say that although I understand and agree with what the OP said, (xtry51: You don't buy an AR to hand it over. You buy it to shoot people who want you to hand it over. (Originally posted on Northeastshooters.com)) I don't like the "feel" of it.

    That said, I also don't believe that we can safeguard liberty with just words. I don't think that there is a way out of this growing police state without bloodshed.
    That doesn't mean that I LIKE it. It doesn't mean that I want good people who disagree with what I perceive as freedom and liberty to die.

    My friends who have been in discussion about 2A and what it means know my position and my belief that the US was founded with the KNOWLEDGE that eventually liberty and freedom would have to be fought for, and patriots would die for it.

    And they know that I still care for them and that they are my friends.
     
  6. PMB

    PMB Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    I can't tell if you are trying to twist what I am saying and what is in my signature, or if you are truly misunderstanding it. I am getting the impression that you enjoy an argument more than a discussion.

    I do not believe in prejudicing a conversation with derogatory name calling. So far pretty simple... No gymnastics.

    I DO believe that if / when enemies of 2A and our Natural Rights come to take the tools of self-defense, it is a patriot's right, even responsibility to resist, even to the point of bloodhsed if needed. Even to the point of self-sacrifice if needed.

    Again, I don't see anything tricky or gymnastics-like in my position, even if you disagree with it.

    Indicating that I want to shoot anyone who disagrees with 2A has never been in the discussion. The post that I quoted seems clear to me : That armed defense of our Natural Rights is a worthy cause if someone tries to take away our means of self-defense. Could it have been typed out more clearly by xtry51? Sure. But I did understand it at first reading.

    So Gunfixx, I appreciate your viewpoint and I do understand what you are saying. You're clear in your thoughts too.

    But- you are either intentionally twisting my words, or simply misunderstanding them. I don't think I can say it any simpler than this.

    Thanks for your input!
     
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  7. bwchase

    bwchase Pacific City Active Member

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    Thanks PMB for supporting this forum, both in posting and your membership status.
    Have close friends and family that are still Democrats, liberal and anti 2a. It is interesting in talking to them that they do not like to be called even liberal, they think they are centralists. No one likes to be called or labeled by pajoritives. Funny thing though, if I ask about say, Sarah Palin, GW, or Dick Cheney, the insults fly by the very sensitive liberals.
    Should apply to both sides, right PMB?
    Hopefully you are just as suggestive to them about name calling as to us.
    Thanks for your post.
    Civility is a good thing. Keep up the good work.
     
  8. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    OP...mentioned above but it bears repeating. What is more 'off-putting' to an anti-2A reader of this thread, calling someone a libtard gun-grabber or advocating the shooting of libtard gun-grabbers as your signature line seemingly advocates?

    "You don't buy an AR to hand it over. You buy it to shoot people who want you to hand it over."

    An anti-2A reader might not understand your intent...

    Keith
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  9. PMB

    PMB Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Hmm... Maybe it is confusing (my signature line.) I'll give it some thought and ask around. If it's confusing to even fellow members of my community, then it's probably not a great signature line.

    As far as what is worse? I read somewhere that when you have to choose between the lesser of two evils, evil still wins.

    I find this mis-reading of my signature line to be strange... Why is it so clear to me what it means, yet so easily misstated by others?

    May I put forward as a possibility in discussion, that those who freely use derogatory terms in regards to those who disagree with them do not like to hear my opinion?

    By the way, I advocate civility with both sides of the political coin. I feel that both political parties are corrupted and both are driving this country to ruin... One side for the most part agrees with my views on 2A, and that is my litmus test.
     
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  10. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    OP, I don't disagree with the intent of your post. I don't call people derogatory terms unless I am in private discussion with my wife of very close friends, usually not even then. I agree it really doesn't help. The fact that so many people are misinterpreting your sig line though should tell you that it is easily misinterpreted and could be hurting the very cause you are advocating.

    Keith
     
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  11. PMB

    PMB Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Thanks Keith. Sometimes things that are super clear to someone are misunderstood by others. I've seen it, yet it still comes as a surprise. It never even occurred to me that anyone could misunderstand the sig-line.

    Good intentions are often misunderstood too.
     
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  12. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    If they don't want to be called names, they shouldn't be libtarded.

    They are winning the fight because of this very tactic. They do not mind going on a rampage and calling you names.
     
  13. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    The closest label I can find for my position is "Eisenhower Republican". I value ALL of the Bill of Rights. To me, free speech means you have a right to say any stupid thing you want to say, but you live with the consequences. You're free to believe in any religion, or none. Your choice. The government has no business prying into your private affairs in ANY way without probable cause and usually a warrant.

    The federal government works best when it is small and unobtrusive. That said, we all grew up enjoying the benefits of this society, among those being a free education, protection from invading forces, adequate infrastructure, the rule of law, charity, and compassion. I believe we owe our society in like kind, and that a certain level of support through taxation is reasonable and necessary. I don't want to live in Calcutta. I think we owe it to ourselves and the least among us to take care of those who can't care for themselves. Ayn Rand's dystopia is not a society I wish for. Nobody in America should die because they can't afford health care, food, or shelter. Rail all you like about welfare queens and lazy parasites, but realize those are rarities. Yes, maybe we're a bit too generous to some folks. Let's fix that.

    That said, I'm a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment. It's the foundation of all of our rights as citizens. Civil rights are not a partisan issue. We should all be on the same side here. Unfortunately, the political demagogues constantly work to divide and conquer. The name calling is part of that. The demonizing is part of that. We need to be constantly aware of it and work against it. Reasonable people can disagree and still be civil. It's the people like Feinstein, Greenlick, and Burdick, the liars and demagogues who deserve the epithets and labels.
     
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  14. Rotty

    Rotty Skagit County Active Member

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    Even a Pro 2A reader might not understand the intent of the statement.

    Staying on topic, lately I have been seeing a lot of bumper stickers reading "Coexist". In theory that is a wonderful idea. In reality it is next to impossible. There is always going to be the extreme right winger and extreme left winger. The name calling piece just makes the person look foolish as those words roll out of their mouths.

    Educating people can be very effective but it's like taking a slow boat to China to change the tide of the Anti 2A regime. You have to do it one person at a time AND you have to get them away from the other Anti 2A'ers to get them to see a different point of view. Even then the newly found view point has no roots in their previous beliefs.
     
  15. Rotty

    Rotty Skagit County Active Member

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    BINGO!!! We have a winner!!
     
  16. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    This is also hard to refute. Liberal agenda wins more often than not because emotion almost always trumps reason and logic.

    Keith
     
  17. bwchase

    bwchase Pacific City Active Member

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    "Trying to stay dry by straddling two boats, while together can work, if going in different directions will become uncomfortable and fail in the origional purpose." AJS
    A good friend is struggling with this dichotomy being a staunch liberal and just got their cwp.
    Your signature line and origional post remind me of two boats going the same general direction but too far apart to be safe.

    However I agree with you.
     
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  18. kumabear17

    kumabear17 Issaquah Active Member

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    For to long, and on to many issues, we have allowed the Left to define the argument. Lead by Obama, and people like Pelosi, Bloomberg and their other radical associates, they have attempted to demonize anyone owning a firearm let alone who carries one. They are still attempting to label us in the same category as sex offenders. The language they use, the names they have come up with, have all be carefully orchestrated to divide people and create a group of people those in power can blame – in this case – for their failure to curb criminal activity. Just the label “Gun Violence” in itself causes many people to associate anyone mentioning the word “gun” with the negative word “violence”.

    I agree you need to have civil conversations with those who will listen. We need to quietly educate those people open minded enough to hear our words and if we can get them to try shooting that’s even better. Any conversation that deteriorates to yelling and name calling becomes just an exercise in venting frustration and if done in public can hurt the image of both sides.

    Obama and his minions have hurt us all whether we are sportsman, hunters, collectors or just gun owners who don’t’ feel they fit in any specific classification. His actions have done some good though. They have exposed people to the tyrannical aspirations of the radical part of the Left. They have caused people on the fence to go buy their first, second and even third firearm. They have taken a group of people,that being “us”, who by our very nature just prefer to be alone in the woods or alone in our thoughts on the target range, and united us. He has given us the voice to back Congress down and win some big battles. The war isn’t over.

    As to name calling? I use the words “anti-gun-nuts” and the “B” words when talking about our so called Left Wing people in power. I think we can get real hung up if we dwell to much on staying on the “high Road”. The goal should be to continue to define the Left for the anti-American philosophy they are spurring. We do that with a constant barrage of letters, peaceful demonstrations and money. We save the unacceptable words for our private conversations where we just need to vent, but remember the “47% comment” that cost an election and be careful who’s around you.
     
  19. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    And I might add that dividing this country is in their play book! Me, I dont understand steadfast Republicans or non union Dems. I understand liberal/conservative and how people fall left or right of center. In most of my rants I reference extreme left and never use the R word. Where I came from that wasn't commonly used for some reason. Plenty of other slurs but not that.
     
  20. coyote223

    coyote223 NW Oregon Stamp Collector,,,

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    All I'm gonna say is, being polite and courteous won Colorado gun owners absolutely squat.