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Out of fear, they will not get help...

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Morpheus, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    A friend of mine has been having a lot if issues with self-diagnosed bi-polar issues. I say self-diagnosed because he is also an avid hunter, target shooter and generally loves his firearms, collection of firearms and all things having to do with them.

    Lately he knows he has been getting worse and wants to seek out a mental health professional. The catch, this guy is Canadian. With their system, he has to be approved for his firearm ownership card (or some such thing) every so many years. It sounds a lot like a 4473 but you fill it out for yourself, not your firearms, and it is every few years. All the annoyance of keeping a CHL with none of the perks. His fear is that if he seeks professional health they will yank this card and that will be it. His entire collection is forfeit.

    I've talked him through several issues over the past years. Trying to lend a shoulder to whine into, sounding board to bounce good and bad ideas against. Honestly though, I'm not a mental health professional neither is he.

    OK, so here I am seeing advice from anyone who may have advice?

    1. Anyone have first hand experience with the Canadian system? Can you confirm/deny the concerns of the situation?

    2. Anyone know about the Canadian mental health system who can give advice on how this guy can get some anonymous help? But still get help?

    Those are my main questions...

    Comment though, I know it isn't this bad in the US but people worry about it getting there. How do the pro-gun people protect people's rights while at the same time allowing people not to be terrified to get help when they need it?

    What if we applied this type of backwards logic to the 1st amendment. Imagine someone saying, "I'm terrified of going to get help for depression because they might bar me from going to church." Or, "I get depressed a lot, but if I go to the doctor they will remove my right to due process and the cops will just come search my house randomly at a whim."

    Pardon the phrase, but it is NUTS that when someone wants help they can't get it for fear of losing their rights!
     
  2. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    I can't find .22 ammo either.

    JUST KIDDING!

    I'm no real help but do wish your bud the best and hope it all works out OK for him on all fronts.
     
  3. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    IMHO if the guy is having some clarity issues,bi polar or whatever,maybe it's best that he put his collection in someone else's hands for now.
    Wouldn't be good for any gun owner or maybe some regular folk if he starts having anger issues and it involves him shooting something up.

    Don't even say he would never do that.
    You don't truly know what demons are lurking inside him
     
  4. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    Yes, and he has actually taken steps for things like this. Though, this is kind of missing the point of the original question. The question is more about how do you seek professional help and still retain your rights as a firearm owner once you are recovered.
     
  5. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Sure,I guess you missed my point.........maybe he shouldn't have guns?
     
  6. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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  7. Simonpie

    Simonpie Portland Active Member

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    It sounds like you aren't getting your questions answered, but just because we aren't Canadian. Here in the states, we have a pretty strong tradition of patient confidentiality. Just tradition, for sure, but that's sometimes stronger than law. Of course, if he government is footing the bill, that changes things a bit. I have a fair number of Canadian friends that absolutely love their health care, but none with this specific case of mental health/gun ownership. Sorry I can't help.

    I'd have to think a church/veteran's org (even if not a veteran) might have some advice on a self-paid service.

    Good luck.
     
  8. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Perhaps try a Canada gun forum? http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/

    Im a primary care doc. If he were here, I'd only have to report if he is saying that he is actively going to kill himself or someone else. Otherwise, all the information is private under doctor patient relationship. I have no mechanism for having his guns taken away (unless he is threatening to kill someone, I'd have to call the police).

    This is why the conversion between the doctor and the patient needs to remain confidential. If someone is afraid that they are going to lose their rights if they get help from a doctor, they are not going to get help.
     
    AngryRedTicTac likes this.
  9. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If he is Canadian he is probably near the US/Canadian border.

    Maybe he could come down to the US and seek help here?

    I don't have any answers about the system up in Canada though.

    I do have a little bit of a feeling for the issue; I am borderline Aspergers (possibly more) and yes, also self-diagnosed. I don't seek "help" because I don't really need it. Over the decades I have learned how to deal with most of the issues, I don't want drugs, I don't want to pay for someone who doesn't really know me to suggest how to deal with stuff I already have learned how to deal with, and it just isn't that serious.

    But also, there is the thing that once a diagnosis is in the healthcare system, then it stays there. If the laws, rules and regulations change, then they could come knocking on my door.

    Won't happen here?

    Look at the calls for it to happen after that kid with Aspergers shot a bunch of people. Gun rights orgs are calling for something to be done on the issues too.

    I am not saying that there shouldn't be restrictions, there already are more or less, but as with most other stuff the government always goes too far.
     
  10. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    And the crazy fact that in all likelihood, that crazy crack smoking trainwreck, mayor of Toronto Rob Ford, probably gets a pass and is allowed to own guns.
     
  11. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    A trainwreck? I'd give a trainwreck more respect. They guy is freak of nature and should be in a padded room.
     
  12. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Tough question. I can't speak to the Canadian system, but I would like to weigh in based on a somewhat similar circumstance with a friend. Before I share that, the first question that needs to be answered is whether or not he is a danger to himself or others, either now, or in the future if this were to get worse. If that's even a remote possibility, then the guns need to come second in behind proper care. Perhaps he could temporarily transfer his collection to a trusted friend or relative - where at least they are still available to him should his rights be retained.

    Back to my story - I had a friend who was a truck driver. 50 years old. In relatively good health, active, but a smoker. He started experiencing symptoms of a heart attack. Several people identified it as such, including 2 nurses in the family. The symptoms were 'minor' at first, but started to come and go stronger and stronger over the course of a month. He endured through some very painful episodes, but refused to get treatment. Everyone knew something was wrong, including him, but his biggest concern was losing his CDL, and with it, his job. After about a month had passed, he had a massive heart attack behind the wheel - they say he was likely dead before he went off the road. Thankfully he didn't take anyone else out with him.

    The point being that there are times when health issues have to take priority over everything else. Sure, he may have lost his job - he could have got another. Instead he left a widow and 2 kids without a father. While it's not a direct correlation to your friend's issue, it does point out that sometimes people put off medical care they really need in order to preserve a freedom (guns, driving, etc.), but may suffer more for doing so.

    If there is any chance he could be a danger to himself or others, that simply has to take priority. We had to take my grandfather's guns from him after he pulled a shotgun on a family member that came for a planned visit. He was starting to lose his full faculties, and as much as it pained us, we had to protect him and others by taking them away. We gave him some pepper spray as an alternate option - at least he wouldn't accidentally kill someone. Perhaps, as another person suggested, he could seek help in the US, if that's an option - and maybe that would work. Either way, he needs to be very honest about the potential threat he could be without treatment. There are a lot of different kinds of mental health issues - not all are potentially dangerous. Best of luck to him.
     
  13. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Well-Known Member

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    Tell your friend to make an appointment with a doc here in the U.S. .
    He can pay cash and it's completely anonymous short of being so out of it he's referred for involuntary hospitalization. He can probably get his meds through the Canadian system, though he should check on that. He might have to pay cash for them.

    As for the wisenheimer that thinks you're friend shouldn't have guns because he's bi-polar, frankly, I've known quite a few people who were bipolar, on and off their meds. None of them frightened me in any way. Like 99.999% of all people with mental illness, they don't tend to be violent.
     
  14. DeanfromOregon

    DeanfromOregon Wilsonville Amateur Ascended Master Platinum Supporter

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    have him go get blood work done. The symptoms of low testosterone would surprise you.

    I don' know the Canadian system but I would stay away from the self diagnosis BS. He is probably not bipolar, just overdramatic.
     
  15. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I know a number of vets who will not seek out VA treatment for PTSD because of the mistaken belief it will affect their gun rights. Fortunately, there are a lot of private groups here if a vet needs help. Bipolar would probably require medications though so I don't know if just private therapy would help your friend. Best of luck.
     
  16. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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  17. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Everything is in "the book" (DSM IV.. about a foot thick) now. If you breathe, you have it. true story
    yay
     
  18. str8shot

    str8shot Battle Ground, Wa Member

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    I'm not bi-polar, but I do know a number of people who have been medically diagnosed and it isn't something that is "recovered" from. It's medicating and learning to deal with it and control it, but it's not a bacteria or virus that will pass.
     
  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Einstein (etc. etc.) was a schizophrenic bi-polar freakizoid.. shoulda put him on some calming pills
     
    40calruler likes this.
  20. 40calruler

    40calruler Lake Oswego Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure most of the people in our history that had huge impacts on moving technology forward and even the world forward had mental illnesses. Back then it was called a genius instead of bi polar though. Who knows what some of those artists and innovators had but we need some more like them.