Oregon wolf situation

[RVTECH]

And a source of meat, if times get bad.

 

[American123]

This is exactly how people in eastern oregon feel about wolves.

Since people on the west side of the state don't have wolves in their backyard, a lot of them are all for wolf reintroduction (and non-management).

This situation plays out in nearly every public issue. I remember in college a professor presenting for discussion the notion that private vehicles were taxed into oblivion to pay for mass transit costs to be reduced. Nearly lemming nodding in agreement shared that they didn't own a vehicle and only took mass transit. Nearly every person opposed owned a vehicle and used it regularly.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Can't - doesn't happen. Feral dogs and coyotes would get stomped by a cow. Wolves are a different issue entirely.

Ever seen a calf being eaten by coyotes as it's being born? If you see it you will never be sympathetic to coyotes again.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Also, feral dogs tend to be unafraid of humans as they are often dumped pets.

If SHTF so bad that there is chaos, I would probably shoot unaccompanied dogs on sight (probably cats too) - there are millions of them, and they would very quickly become a big problem.

We already do in many places here in the US.

 

[American123]

Ever seen a calf being eaten by coyotes as it's being born? If you see it you will never be sympathetic to coyotes again.

Haven't seen that, but my post was also referencing how cows/bulls generally can deal with dogs/coyotes. Calves/or an already injured cow obviously is a different issue.

While I don't personally have any hatred, or specific sympathy toward wild animals, I still understand what they are capable of. Carnivores kill to eat. Nature can be gruesome, but that's "nature." If a coyote doesn't kill, its pups will starve to death. So while I "get it," we as humans aren't much different. We kill things all the time to eat them. If not us personally, someone else who did the dirty work for us. If our children were hungry and we had to kill something for them to not starve to death, most people would have blood on their hands very quickly. We have different tools, but the end result is about the same.

 

[USMC1911]

How can anyone believe that only 175 wolfs exist in Oregon? If you have ever had a dog that you bread simple math tells you that in just a couple years that number would be exceeded. Oregon wolfs were introduced in 1999. Come on man! ODFW math must be like Brandons. "I got two words for you Made in America!"

 

[Idaho44]

Here's a fun one to watch at dinner time:

 

[Idaho44]

And not to burst too many bubbles, many so called "wild dogs" are family pets who "pack up" to have fun chasing critters. Stand rule is "shoot to kill" dogs in a pack chasing domestic stock or wild game! Note open 'season' on dogs exists like it or not!

 

[Going Tits Up]

As a fur trapper in my younger years and growing up on a large cattle ranch here's something to think about I get in my weekly e-mails from Oregon Dfw

Follow the link. Wolf killing beef critters daily. My advice, shoot shovel, look out for trail cams in the areas. Deschutes, Klamath, Union, etc everywhere east of I-5 is suspect. Trying to train them to only eat ( cat kissing, tree hugging, anti hunting, braided armpit lesbos) in my younger days was futil.

ODFW Wolf Updates Update

10/07/2022

You are subscribed to Wolf Updates for ODFW. This information has recently been updated, and is now available. https://dfw.state.or.us/Wolves/wolf_livestock_updates.asp

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

kill them all are my thoughts

 

[Howard1955]

Here's a fun one to watch at dinner time:

Nature can be awfully cruel. Predators will eat their prey while it's still alive.

Years ago, I read an account of a man who went out to get firewood from his woodpile, and never came back into his house. His wife eventually called someone for help.

When they found his remains, they determined that the man had been taken by a black bear, and that he was probably alive for several minutes while the bear was eating him.

 

[Horatius]

And not to burst too many bubbles, many so called "wild dogs" are family pets who "pack up" to have fun chasing critters. Stand rule is "shoot to kill" dogs in a pack chasing domestic stock or wild game! Note open 'season' on dogs exists like it or not!

Years ago, my Brother, cried like a baby after he shot his own wolf mix for chasing calves! It was right for him to shoot his own dog, I would not watch wolves kill calves!

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Sdvldog1371]

About 4 years back I was hunting the Silver lake unit. I was walking a road that had a large tree downed blocking vehicles from using the road. I heard noise in the brush, howling in the distance and assumed it was a coyote. I got a good look at the noise in the brush and it looked like a wolf. I remember when the wolves were hunted out of existence here in Oregon so I assumed a hybrid Coyote like the ones I seen around East lake years before. Then ran into wildlife biologists who were tracking an introduced pair that had a pup.

Aldo Leopold wrote a book I think all coyote and wolf haters need to read called " A Sand County Almanac." It makes you really look at our prejudice toward these animals and how our hunting them relentlessly has changed our environment. It's not just an Oregon thing or a 1970's- present thing. His book was written a LONG time ago and they were facing these problems then.


If wolves, cougars and coyotes are to blame for the lack of deer and elk....how then were these lands so plentiful before our arrival and for the first hundred years or so after our arrival? We annihilated the wolf population because they went after our cattle when their natural prey became more scarce. Then the cougar populations got out of hand with no natural competition to keep them in check. Then out of stater's living here voted to stop hunting cougars with hounds and the populations got way out of hand. Our elk and deer populations started to drastically decline and our interactions with cougars have become more and more prevalent. We tipped the balance in the wrong direction because we couldn't accept the risks involved in raising livestock in areas surrounded by wilderness.

A very brief and poor summary of " A Sand County Almanac":

PEOPLE are the problem, not the wolves or coyotes or cougars. We have over hunted, deforested and over planted our land for generations. We have overgrazed cattle on lush land which our game relied upon, turning healthy soil with primary grasses and forage into compacted soil that could only hold secondary grasses, into overly compacted soil that could barely support tertiary grasses that couldn't hold and protect soil. We then over harvested our timber to such an extent that we ruined our economy and took away what little shelter that tertiary grass and degraded soil had from the wind. That rich top soil then got blown away and eroded away causing it to become just dirt. Dirt that barely holds any grasses or forage. We over hunted our lands for profit and fun, as well as, to feed our families then we blamed every predator but ourselves for our fisheries and our hunting grounds being devastated and baron.

END

Our diminished deer and elk herds are diminished because of mismanagement by ODFW and by our logging/ timber companies. We get upset when people say logging has destroyed our hunting grounds and fisheries/ spawning habitats etc... because that is our jobs and our livelihood. You're threatening our income and the security of our families. We are an extremely self-centered species who put ourselves above all else without considering the consequences. If you like to hunt and shoot and fish etc... then be a F#*king conservationist. Don't stand idly by while logging companies overplant and mismanage our forests while trying to make it seem like they're doing the environment a service. They're just ensuring they have a larger cash crop next harvest. The overplanting destroys elk and deer habitat. Don't poach, report poachers, don't leave your trash in the woods, pick up trash when you're in the woods. I picked up the landing where my dog is buried. I did it every month for 3 years and this last several times i was up there....NO TRASH and people have been camping up there etc... If it doesn't look like a trash dump people are less likely to think "whats one more bottle, wrapper etc..." and they might pack their trash out.

Lastly and most importantly, TEACH YOUR KIDS AND FRIENDS GOOD STEWARDSHIP! Teach them to respect the land and to think about the fisheries and hunting lands as a system that requires balance. Take away the wolves get more cougars, take out the cougars and get more wolves. Coyotes and bears flourish regardless because they're not necessarily in direct competition for the same food source but take out the competition and see what happens. Coyotes hunt in packs and will hunt game not normally on the menu if they have no easier options. Cougars have been seen hunting in packs to increase their success and survivability which is unprecedented.

 

[Tlock]

Cougars hunting in packs? That's laughable.....I trap and run dogs on mountain lions on a weekly basis and in 20 years I've never come across a pack of lions. Mom will teach her kittens to hunt and they stay with her tell about 18 months. In almost 20 years I've dealt with mom and kittens 3 times

 

[Howard1955]

About 4 years back I was hunting the Silver lake unit. I was walking a road that had a large tree downed blocking vehicles from using the road. I heard noise in the brush, howling in the distance and assumed it was a coyote. I got a good look at the noise in the brush and it looked like a wolf. I remember when the wolves were hunted out of existence here in Oregon so I assumed a hybrid Coyote like the ones I seen around East lake years before. Then ran into wildlife biologists who were tracking an introduced pair that had a pup.

Aldo Leopold wrote a book I think all coyote and wolf haters need to read called " A Sand County Almanac." It makes you really look at our prejudice toward these animals and how our hunting them relentlessly has changed our environment. It's not just an Oregon thing or a 1970's- present thing. His book was written a LONG time ago and they were facing these problems then.


If wolves, cougars and coyotes are to blame for the lack of deer and elk....how then were these lands so plentiful before our arrival and for the first hundred years or so after our arrival? We annihilated the wolf population because they went after our cattle when their natural prey became more scarce. Then the cougar populations got out of hand with no natural competition to keep them in check. Then out of stater's living here voted to stop hunting cougars with hounds and the populations got way out of hand. Our elk and deer populations started to drastically decline and our interactions with cougars have become more and more prevalent. We tipped the balance in the wrong direction because we couldn't accept the risks involved in raising livestock in areas surrounded by wilderness.

A very brief and poor summary of " A Sand County Almanac":

PEOPLE are the problem, not the wolves or coyotes or cougars. We have over hunted, deforested and over planted our land for generations. We have overgrazed cattle on lush land which our game relied upon, turning healthy soil with primary grasses and forage into compacted soil that could only hold secondary grasses, into overly compacted soil that could barely support tertiary grasses that couldn't hold and protect soil. We then over harvested our timber to such an extent that we ruined our economy and took away what little shelter that tertiary grass and degraded soil had from the wind. That rich top soil then got blown away and eroded away causing it to become just dirt. Dirt that barely holds any grasses or forage. We over hunted our lands for profit and fun, as well as, to feed our families then we blamed every predator but ourselves for our fisheries and our hunting grounds being devastated and baron.

END

Our diminished deer and elk herds are diminished because of mismanagement by ODFW and by our logging/ timber companies. We get upset when people say logging has destroyed our hunting grounds and fisheries/ spawning habitats etc... because that is our jobs and our livelihood. You're threatening our income and the security of our families. We are an extremely self-centered species who put ourselves above all else without considering the consequences. If you like to hunt and shoot and fish etc... then be a F#*king conservationist. Don't stand idly by while logging companies overplant and mismanage our forests while trying to make it seem like they're doing the environment a service. They're just ensuring they have a larger cash crop next harvest. The overplanting destroys elk and deer habitat. Don't poach, report poachers, don't leave your trash in the woods, pick up trash when you're in the woods. I picked up the landing where my dog is buried. I did it every month for 3 years and this last several times i was up there....NO TRASH and people have been camping up there etc... If it doesn't look like a trash dump people are less likely to think "whats one more bottle, wrapper etc..." and they might pack their trash out.

Lastly and most importantly, TEACH YOUR KIDS AND FRIENDS GOOD STEWARDSHIP! Teach them to respect the land and to think about the fisheries and hunting lands as a system that requires balance. Take away the wolves get more cougars, take out the cougars and get more wolves. Coyotes and bears flourish regardless because they're not necessarily in direct competition for the same food source but take out the competition and see what happens. Coyotes hunt in packs and will hunt game not normally on the menu if they have no easier options. Cougars have been seen hunting in packs to increase their success and survivability which is unprecedented.

"PEOPLE are the problem, not the wolves or coyotes or cougars."


Tell that to the young man who watched his fiancée get torn apart and eaten by wolves.

 

[The Heretic]

"PEOPLE are the problem, not the wolves or coyotes or cougars."


Tell that to the young man who watched his fiancée get torn apart and eaten by wolves.

Amazon delivery driver found dead after an apparent dog attack

Deputies in Ray County, Missouri, shot and killed two aggressive dogs after the man's body was found. His wounds were consistent with an animal attack, the sheriff said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Going Tits Up]

TLock needs to get out more often?

14552702-5D11-4BEA-BFB6-4EC1755B5A7C.jpeg

• Going Tits Up
• Oct 25, 2022

 

[Tlock]

TLock needs to get out more often?

14552702-5D11-4BEA-BFB6-4EC1755B5A7C.jpeg

• Going Tits Up
• Oct 25, 2022

Yep I guess. I've been wrong with everything I've in last 15 years.....

 

[DangerDog]

Leave the wolves and coyotes alone. Shoot the real dangers like mountain lions, deer, elk, etc.