Oregon Oregon max barrel length for AR pistol

[RallySoob]

Can you legally put a 16" AR15 rifle upper onto an ar15 registered pistol lower in oregon. Google says no but you used to be able to do this. Is tgis really illegal now?

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[CamoDeafie]

Google isn't your friend here.

I see absolutely nothing prohibiting putting 16+" barreled uppers on pistol lowers, in any of the Oregon laws...

https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors166.html

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I have a 16" barreled pistol (revolver) that was manufactured as a pistol. Sometimes it turns into a rifle and other times back into a pistol.

If it's originally a rifle it must stay a rifle. If it was originally a pistol it can become a rifle and back to a pistol etc.

 

[MikeInOr]

Google says no but you used to be able to do this. Is tgis really illegal now?

Probably that wonderfully useless Google AI "feature"?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Relating to above; Thompson &Center v. USA from 1997?

set forth a Federal doctrine where pistol to rifle, then back to pistol configuration is 100% legal as long as its not in a NFA configuration. (SBR/AOW configurations)

but. rifle to pistol is no go.


Edit. This was the case that really should have (IMO) overturned/invalidated at least the SBR/AOW configuration parts of the NFA but didn't.

 

[arakboss]

No maximum length for handgun barrels.


The 26 inch barreled revolver in this video is one of my faves.

View: https://youtu.be/7V8p4eqjMiw?feature=shared

 

[command_liner]

The intent issue is hashed out in detail in argument. See https://www.oyez.org/cases/1991/91-164

 

[CamoDeafie]

Indeed. Once a rifle barrel gets to under 16", it becomes a SBR barrel.

Once a pistol with a barrel up to 16", gets a stock, it becomes a SBR.

But put a 16+" barrel and stock on a pistol, no problemo.

Put a Vertical foregrip to a pistol with any barrel length, maybe under 26" OAL, it becomes Any Other Weapon. (If over 26" OAL, maybe not an AOW, maybe not a "pistol"? Just a "GCA Firearm")

Put a vertical foregrip on a rifle with 16+ barrel and a stock, no problem.

Remove the stock and shorten the barrel under 16" on a rifle? Nope, no go, that's still a SBR because, once a "Rifle receiver, always a rifle receiver".

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Put a Vertical foregrip to a pistol with any barrel length, maybe under 26" OAL, it becomes Any Other Weapon. (If over 26" OAL, maybe not an AOW, maybe not a "pistol"? Just a "GCA Firearm")

I've never understood the 26" distinction when it comes to vertical foregrip. I've asked for advice here before but no responses. I don't mean the "why" about why it's 26", I mean the legality of having a vertical foregrip.

So let's say you had a non nfa pistol with 27" OAL can you attach a vertical foregrip without it becoming a nfa item?

What about 25" OAL can you attach a vertical foregrip? What about 26" OAL exactly?
@wired, do you know?

For context, the last time this came up with lots of discussion was the atf determination of does brace count towards OAL maybe a couple years ago? I've only put them on sbrs to be safe, but I've always wondered. Perhaps the "2 hands" things trumps everything when it comes to vertical fore grips?

 

[CamoDeafie]

I've never understood the 26" distinction when it comes to vertical foregrip. I've asked for advice here before but no responses.

So let's say you had a pistol with 27" OAL can you attach a vertical foregrip without it becoming a nfa item?

What about 25" can you attach a vertical foregrip? @wired, do you know?

The thing is that the ATF says under 26" OAL = concealable.
AOW = any concealable weapon that doesn't fit the SBR/SBS definitions or doesn't fit "pistol/revolver" definition (designed to be fired with one hand )

A rifle is considered a SBR if it has a barrel under 16", or is under 26" OAL.

A shotgun is considered a SBS if barrel is under 18", or is under 26" OAL.

Not sure which specific sections "weapon made from rifle or shotgun" whose barrel lengths are under 16" (rifle) or 18"(shotgun) and OAL are under 26", fits in, but they are considered NFA firearms

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The thing is that the ATF says under 26" OAL = concealable.
AOW = any concealable weapon that doesn't fit the SBR/SBS definitions or doesn't fit "pistol/revolver" definition (designed to be fired with one hand )

A rifle is considered a SBR if it has a barrel under 16", or is under 26" OAL.

A shotgun is considered a SBS if barrel is under 18", or is under 26" OAL.

Not sure which specific sections "weapon made from rifle or shotgun" whose barrel lengths are under 16" (rifle) or 18"(shotgun) and OAL are under 26", fits in, but they are considered NFA firearms

The last 3 don't fit the question I have. Perhaps first one doesn't either because I'm asking about a pistol (does fit pistol definition before attaching a vertical grip Fe a Galil? or ptr that is less than 16" barrel and with receiver (not brace) is 26" or 27" OAL let's say).

 

[CamoDeafie]

The last 3 don't fit the question I have. Perhaps first one doesn't either because I'm asking about a pistol (does fit pistol definition before attaching a vertical grip Fe a Galil? or ptr that is less than 16" barrel and with receiver (not brace) is 26" or 27" OAL let's say).

27 CFR § 479.11 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov

It depends on whether the frames/receivers were manufactured first as "rifle" or "pistol"

There are no defined max sizes of pistols/revolvers; BUT there does seem to be a maximum size defined for AOWs if ATF says 26"=concealable.

Ergo, a pistol bigger than 26", may still legally have vert foregrip, however ATF may still claim it to be a NFA Firearm if they determine the "pistol" receiver is now a "rifle receiver"

 

[ilikegunspdx]

27 CFR § 479.11 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov

According to those definitions does not fit AOW cuz it's a rifled pistol. Does not fit firearm because not a rifle nor a weapon made from a rifle. So that doesn't help unless I'm missing something.

 

[CamoDeafie]

According to those definitions does not fit AOW cuz it's a rifled pistol. Does not fit firearm because not a rifle nor a weapon made from a rifle. So that doesn't help unless I'm missing something.

See edit.

Edit, also, nitpicking, ATF, Congress has defined pistols as being designed to be fired by one hand

 

[ilikegunspdx]

See edit

As I said in my post it is a pistol. Not manufactured, designed, or intended to be anything else.

For something like a non AR, I don't see how they could call a pistol receiver a rifle receiver as it's never been made into a rifle. Especially where the upper is the serialized part (i.e the upper is the transferable firearm such as ptr g3/7.62x39). But it's the ATF so who knows and of course that's what they tried to do with the brace rule, redefine what a rifle is based on what you attach to a pistol. But we know that didn't fly legally.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Edit, also, nitpicking, ATF, Congress has defined pistols as being designed to be fired by one hand

Exactly. The "one hand" thing maybe trumps everything else. That's what I've assumed anyway and why I've never put a vertical fore grip on such a long OAL pistol. Who knows…

 

[CamoDeafie]

Exactly. The "one hand" thing maybe trumps everything else. That's what I've assumed anyway and why I've never out vertical grip on such a pistol. Who knows…

Congress could expand on it and declare any weapon that needs a support hand ahead (or anywhere else) of main grip is a NFA firearm.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Exactly. The "one hand" thing maybe trumps everything else. That's what I've assumed anyway and why I've never put a vertical fore grip on such a long OAL pistol. Who knows…

Alternatively, Congress could try and pass a bill to group all AR, AK, HK, FAL types of receivers as "rifle receivers/frames", regardless of configuration.

This would basically turn all the firearms based on these receivers into rifles, and ergo, any and all pistol configured receivers into SBRs/NFA firearms

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Congress won't be doing any of that stuff so no need to waste time on it imo.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Congress won't be doing any of that stuff so no need to waste time on it imo.

Yea, theyre gonna try get the DOJ to ""clarify"" things