Open Field Doctrine

[rjmt]

I just learned of this today
law enforcement has the right to search your private lands in open fields and wooded areas and is not in violation of the 4th Amendment
as per a Supreme Cort ruling in 1924

Open Fields Doctrine - Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation

As with many Constitutional protections, the court system has created carve-outs and exceptions to the Fourth Amendment, one being the Open Fields Doctrine. This doctrine holds that the expectation of privacy provided by the Fourth Amendment does not extend to “open fields” or other wooded...

congressionalsportsmen.org

this means law enforcement can enter your property for search or to install surveillance equipment without a warrant if they determine "probable cause"

Read More

 

[ma96782]

Balance that.....with a carve out for the......

"Expectation of privacy".

Aloha, Mark

 

[rjmt]

where this concerns me the most is for those who have shooting ranges on private property
law enforcement has the right to bypass NO TRESPASSING signs and drive onto private property to see what your shooting
the only probable cause they need is to hear the gunshots

expectation of privacy only applies to private residence, not your fields and forest

 

[ma96782]

expectation of privacy only applies to private residence, not your fields and forest

So then.....say that I erect a certain type of barrier, on my private property, so as not to have the "neighbors" leering at me while I sunbathe in the nude? Humm.....haven't I created my "expectation of privacy" (that isn't EXACTLY a residence/home)?

Whatever......I didn't mean to quibble. YEAH.......it could be argued (in Court). Along with surveillance issues like that conducted by a drone flying under say X feet, or the use of hi-powered magnifying lens, or climbing a near by tree (or using a ladder) to look, etc.... etc.....

Aloha, Mark

PS....it's also got me thinking. About how State Constitutions and State Laws can EXPAND rights but not restrict the right(s) granted by the Federal Constitution.

So.....why is it Constitutional.....to pass State laws that restrict/go against the Federal 2nd A?

 

[Certaindeaf]

where this concerns me the most is for those who have shooting ranges on private property
law enforcement has the right to bypass NO TRESPASSING signs and drive onto private property to see what your shooting
the only probable cause they need is to hear the gunshots

expectation of privacy only applies to private residence, not your fields and forest

Probably just use a drone.

 

[rjmt]

So then.....say that I erect a certain type of barrier, on my private property, so as not to have the "neighbors" leering at me while I sunbathe in the nude? Humm.....haven't I created my "expectation of privacy" (that isn't EXACTLY a residence/home)?

Whatever......I didn't mean to quibble. YEAH.......it could be argued (in Court).

Aloha, Mark

no - my neighbor did than in 1998
he wanted to work nude in his yard while we had kids outside - so he put up a 6' tall, 30' long fence (property extends 1200')
he had been working nude in his yard for 10 years before we moved onto the adjacent property
my wife called the Sheriffs - they told him to put cloths on

 

[ma96782]

no - my neighbor did than in 1998
he wanted to work nude in his yard while we had kids outside - so he put up a 6' tall, 30' long fence (property extends 1200')
he had been working nude in his yard for 10 years before we moved onto the adjacent property
my wife called the Sheriffs - they told him to put cloths on

My sun bathing enclosure.......would have a gate and walls on all 4 sides. LOL. Hummm.....and maybe even a swimming pool too. Rrrrright......for the times when I'd want to "skinny dip".

Aloha, Mark

 

[Alexx1401]

I just learned of this today
law enforcement has the right to search your private lands in open fields and wooded areas and is not in violation of the 4th Amendment
as per a Supreme Cort ruling in 1924

Open Fields Doctrine - Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation

As with many Constitutional protections, the court system has created carve-outs and exceptions to the Fourth Amendment, one being the Open Fields Doctrine. This doctrine holds that the expectation of privacy provided by the Fourth Amendment does not extend to “open fields” or other wooded...

congressionalsportsmen.org

this means law enforcement can enter your property for search or to install surveillance equipment without a warrant if they determine "probable cause"

Game camera's. If you see "someone" put up electronics? Go back and take them down and trash them. Let them see how many they want to buy.

 

[rjmt]

Probably just use a drone.

they can even use thermal imaging on drones to survey your home and outbuildings

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep533/usrep533027/usrep533027.pdf

 

[rjmt]

Game camera's. If you see "someone" put up electronics? Go back and take them down and trash them. Let them see how many they want to buy.

actually, a land owner in Tenn was arrested and charged with stealing gov property for tanking down Fish and Game cameras

 

[Alexx1401]

actually, a land owner in Tenn was arrested and charged with stealing gov property for tanking down Fish and Game cameras

I would let them arrest me for that. Would be an interesting case to take to court. Did the news follow up on what if anything they did to the land owner?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Theres also the principle of "curtilage" I think.. where there's the expectation of privacy extending a specific distance away from the housing/domicile.. but beyond those boundaries, "open fields/woods" doctrine only for LEO it seems.. if property is otherwise posted and all that (no trespassing signs and fencing). However... farmlands with no fencing, but access points to the property? I don't know. I know people have driven onto these access points for encounters and so forth... depends on the States ?

 

[rjmt]

My sun bathing enclosure.......would have a gate and walls on all 4 sides. LOL. Hummm.....and maybe even a swimming pool too. Rrrrright......for the times when I'd want to "skinny dip".

Aloha, Mark

now, that is OK
neighbors 3 properties down the hill did that around their pool

 

[CamoDeafie]

One thing I'm not a fan of.... having the front of your house less than 50 feet away from the highway on a large piece of property, especially if said property is mostly grassland/grazing land and a yuuge backyard. I suppose these houses may have been built before paved roads.. or before the owners acquired more land... but.. it just bugs me that someone could park on side of highway and not violate privacy

 

[rjmt]

I would let them arrest me for that. Would be an interesting case to take to court. Did the news follow up on what if anything they did to the land owner?

State wildlife agency sued over secret surveillance on private land • Tennessee Lookout

A Benton County man sued the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency after finding the agency secretly placed surveillance cameras on his land.

tennesseelookout.com

 

[ma96782]

actually, a land owner in Tenn was arrested and charged with stealing gov property for tanking down Fish and Game cameras

Put me on the Jury. I'd like to SEND A MESSAGE to the TN Govt.

But, I've also heard, that some states do not allow for a JURY TRIAL for "certain crimes". Whatever.......perhaps, we've gone too far down that hill already.

Aloha, Mark

 

[rjmt]

One thing I'm not a fan of.... having the front of your house less than 50 feet away from the highway on a large piece of property, especially if said property is mostly grassland/grazing land and a yuuge backyard. I suppose these houses may have been built before paved roads.. or before the owners acquired more land... but.. it just bugs me that someone could park on side of highway and not violate privacy

you see that along the I 5 corridor going North in Clark Co
we planted Filbert hedges all along the dead end county road - they are 15' tall now and you can't see through them even in Winter

 

[rjmt]

they can even use thermal imaging on drones to survey your home and outbuildings

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep533/usrep533027/usrep533027.pdf

since the law suit states the defended didn't insulate his building to prevent heat radiance, he had no expectation of privacy from a thermal scan
I have R30 in my roofs - even FLIR says they can't scan through such insulation

 

[Alexx1401]

State wildlife agency sued over secret surveillance on private land • Tennessee Lookout

A Benton County man sued the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency after finding the agency secretly placed surveillance cameras on his land.

tennesseelookout.com

That was from almost 2 years ago. Anyone know if there has been any further development on this? Interesting case for sure.

 

[Cavedweller]

the only probable cause they need is to hear the gunshots

Says who?