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OK, WOW off-topic

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Gunguy45, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Well-Known Member

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    I've been trying in vain to find ANY confirmation of GEN. John N. Abrams' TWO silver stars, presumably awarded in Vietnam.

    I can find absolutely nothing.

    To refresh your memories, Abrams was the son of then Gen. Creighton Abrams (of WW2 fame) who was commissioned as a second LT in 1966 and served in RVN in armor for I think two tours.

    At the time, his daddy was was head of MACV. Is this another of those utterly BS SS's that went to the well-connected or self serving without ever having actually seen anything in the way of combat? (See the awards for Alexander Hage if you want to know what I mean. (-Chairwarming Pansy who never fired a shot in anger).

    Did he actually ever even EARN the TWO SS's with which he is credited? What's up with this guy? Is he the real deal or is it another case of "Merit Badges" awarded to chair-sitting REMFS who never put themselves in danger?

    If he earned them, then why is he listed on NOTHING I can find on the internet?

    No citation, no nothing. Not even his name in any official record I've seen.

    Not trying to cast any aspersions here. If he earned them, then God Bless him. But for a later FULL GENERAL in the USA to not have his citation for valor ANYWHERE to be found is more than a little fishy.

    I haven't written DoD because frankly, at this point, I don't want to be arsed. but I know we have a load of vets besides me here, many of which were in RVN. Am I crazy?

    Or was this guy a real John Wayne type? (Two SSs and a bronze star would say yes. I just want to know why anything about it is missing from any record I can find.
     
    gryghin likes this.
  2. yskippy

    yskippy Tigard Life Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Found this after a simple internet search (3rd result)



    Three days after arriving in Viet-nam on a troop ship in August 1967, the unit was on the road, heading for the Central Highlands city of Pleiku.

    Their first tactical mission was a 71-mile road march, a "very formidable route" that included two cut-throughs where the French had suffered catastrophic losses during an early 1950s movement. Bravo Troop was ordered to lead the way. Abrams worked to reassure his platoon, re-minding them how extensively they'd trained to do this.

    They made it through "without dropping a vehicle." It was his first lesson in the value of training hard.

    Abrams went on to distinguish himself in two years of armored combat around Vietnam's rice paddies and bridges; as a captain commanding Charlie Troop in 1969, he once climbed aboard a helicopter to hover over a fierce firefight in dense brush in order to better direct his tanks and other vehicles. That incident produced one of the two Silver Stars Abrams earned for gallantry in combat. He also was awarded four Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart.

    The word got around. "I didn't know him personally," said Zanini, who also served as a 2/1 Cav platoon leader and now is TRADOC's deputy chief of staff for combat developments. "But I knew him very well by reputation. Even in those days, he stood out as a potential future leader."
     
    gryghin likes this.
  3. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    My oldest brother served under him in Viet Nam as a tank commander for the 11th ACR, Black Horse Regiment.
    Curiously, both Abrams and Geo Patton IV served in that unit, and my brother was under the command of both at one time or another, between late 1968 and early 1971.

    Those guys saw lots of hellish duty, and accomplished more stuff (that no one will ever hear about) than most would ever believe. Especially in a country/terrain not exactly ideally suited to tank warfare.

    Knowing Abrams rode the Black Horse in RVN, is enough to make me believe if he's got those medals, he earned them.
     
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  4. yskippy

    yskippy Tigard Life Member Lifetime Supporter

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    What he said :s0155::s0155::s0155:
     
  5. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Well-Known Member

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    Again, I'm asking for information, not attempting to cast any aspersions.

    The quote I highlighted is a fairly typical quote from citations of officers (as opposed to enlisted men) who promptly LEFT the field (and most of the danger) to assume essentially invulnerable CO's position during a firefight.

    This specific kind of action, and more importantly the "Heroism" awards it gained were widely disputed by Co. David Hackworth, among many others.

    According to them: (I'm paraphrasing here, bear with me) "We came to know that if there wasn't an accompanying purple heart with the citation, it was probably Bullbubblegum."

    For Hackworth's bonafides, look no further than his TWO DSCs, in Korea first as a Sgt e-5, along with the 10 Silver stars and EIGHT purple hearts.
     
  6. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Doesn't read like a ring knocker
    "After enlisting as a tank crewman in 1966,
    John received his commission as a Second Lieutenant through Officer Candidate School in 1968. As a young armor officer, Abrams served two years in Vietnam, rising from platoon leader to troop commander. Toward the end of his tour, Abrams commanded an armored cavalry troop in the Mang Yang Pass, where he established such good relations with the Montagnard villagers that a local village chief gave him an elephant." a combat veteran of Vietnam from August 1967 to July 1969, he extended!

    Silver Star Medal with 1 Oak Leaf Cluster (two silver stars!)
    Legion of Merit with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters (3 awards for total hard corps)
    Bronze Star Medal with "Valor" Device and 3 Oak Leaf Clusters (four awards!)
    Purple Heart (injured, wounded)
    This guy reads like a motivated hard-charging Mustang.

    His career was noted by Congress
     
    Sgt Nambu, Jamie6.5 and gryghin like this.