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Obama WILL reinstate the ban.. Thank you Mexico

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Jaybo, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. Jaybo

    Jaybo Olympia Washington Member

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    Front Page CNN... Read it and WEEP.... read it and weep........:angry:

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/16/obama.latin.america/index.html

    And in case the article disappears..... Here it is: (Highlighted Key Points)

    MEXICO CITY, Mexico (CNN) -- Reviving a ban on assault weapons and more strictly enforcing existing gun laws could help tamp down drug violence that has run rampant on the U.S.-Mexican border, President Obama said Thursday.

    Speaking alongside Mexican President Felipe Calderón, Obama said he has "not backed off at all" on a campaign pledge to try to restore the ban. It was instituted under President Clinton and allowed to lapse by President George W. Bush.

    [I]"I continue to believe that we can respect and honor the Second Amendment right in our Constitution -- the rights of sportsmen and hunters and homeowners that want to keep their families safe -- to lawfully bear arms, while dealing with assault weapons that, as we know here in Mexico, are used to fuel violence," Obama said.[/I]

    Obama and Calderón spoke after completing a wide-ranging meeting that included talk of the deadly border situation. Calderón said that the link between Mexican drug violence and the U.S. ban on 19 types of military-style semi-automatic rifles -- which lapsed in 2004 -- is clear.
    [I]"From the moment the the prohibition on the sale of assault weapons was lifted a few years ago, we have seen an increase in the power of organized crime in Mexico," Calderón said. [/I]

    He said that more than 16,000 assault weapons have been seized in the crackdown on drug traffickers, with almost 9 in 10 coming from the United States.
    Some observers have said Obama may be slow to reintroduce the ban in Congress, where it would be sure to spark a fight at a time when his administration needs all the political clout it can muster to push its aggressive economic recovery efforts.

    Calderón acknowledged the debate's thorny nature. "We know that it is a politically delicate topic because Americans truly appreciate their Constitutional rights," he said. "As long as we are able to express clearly what our problems in Mexico are, then we might be able to also seek a solution that respects the constitutional rights of Americans, that at the same time will avoid organized crime becoming better armed in our country."

    Obama said he has asked Attorney General Eric Holder to study how current gun laws are enforced and whether loopholes in some can be tightened. He said laws already on the books should restrict the flow of weapons into Mexico.

    Obama and Calderón said their discussions ranged from working together to combat global climate change, to efforts at comprehensive immigration reform. Obama noted his two votes as a U.S. senator for reforms was backed by then-President Bush but shot down by Bush's fellow Republicans over what they called an "amnesty" provision for illegal immigrants. "For those immigrants who have put down roots -- they have come here illegally -- I think they need to pay a penalty for having broken the law. They need to come out of the shadows. Then we need to put them through a process where, if they want to stay in the United States, they have an opportunity to earn it," Obama said.
    Calderón said the key to reducing illegal immigration is to grow jobs in Mexico, which he pledged to do.

    But much of their talk centered on the drug violence. Since taking office in 2006, Calderón has worked to root out government corruption and crack down on the drug cartels that hold sway in many of Mexico's border regions. That, combined with ramped-up power struggles and turf warfare, has contributed to a rash of violence that has led to more than 1,000 deaths this year. Obama commended Calderón on the steps his government has taken. "But I will not pretend that this is a Mexican responsibility alone," he said. "A demand for these drugs in the United States is what is helping keep these cartels in business. This war is being waged with guns not purchased here but in the United States."

    Obama said he'll urge fast-tracking of the three-year, $1.4 billion Merida Initiative, a joint security plan between the United States, Mexico and other Latin American countries in which U.S. equipment, technology and expertise are used toward combating the drug trade. Speaking to CNN en Español, Obama lauded Calderón as having done "an outstanding and heroic job in dealing with what is a big problem right now along the borders with the drug cartels." Asked whether the United States is partly to blame for the violence along the border, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said, "there certainly is a relationship. You can't deny it."

    In Mexico City on Thursday, she said, "What we're working to do is to work to stop the flow of guns and cash into Mexico that are helping fuel these cartels, but also we're working at the border to make sure that the spillover violence doesn't occur in our own cities and communities Napolitano said the United States also must ensure that it is enforcing immigration laws on employers who "consistently go into that illegal labor market in order to exploit it."

    E-verify, an electronic employment eligibility verification system, must be an integral part of immigration enforcement, she said.
    Obama is to travel later in the week to the summit for meetings with Latin American leaders. While on the trip to Latin America, Obama said he seeks to engage in talks with the region's leaders as equals. "Times have changed," Obama said Wednesday.

    He refused to criticize the leaders of Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela, who have taken measures to change their constitutions to extend their holds on power "I think it's important for the United States not to tell other countries how to structure their democratic practices and what should be contained in their constitutions," he said. "It's up to the people of those countries to make a decision about how they want to structure their affairs." He said he believes that the United States has a leadership role to play in the region, but he qualified that role this way: "We also recognize that other countries have important contributions and insights." He added, "We want to listen and learn as well as talk, and that approach, I think, of mutual respect and finding common interests, is one that ultimately will serve everybody."
     
  2. ZombieAssassin

    ZombieAssassin Oregon Member

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    It's always ironic how government/statist types always omit the true reason for the 2nd Amendment: for the citizens to overthrow a tyrannical government.
     
  3. USMC1911

    USMC1911 Salem Active Member

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    Wow what a shock! I cant believe it lol....
     
  4. timbernet

    timbernet Boring, Oregon Member

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    Dang it... I didn't want to have to buy an AR-15 so soon... :-(
     
  5. solowars

    solowars Lake oswego New Member

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    :paranoid:
     
  6. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    I think I'm about to have a boating accident
     
  7. olskool_al

    olskool_al Tacoma, WA Member

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    I lived in San Diego most my life and spent a lot of time in Tijuana Mexico. The stuff I saw go on was beyond comprehension. If the police weren't so crooked down there, they might not be having these problems. They would be putting these *******s away. There has always been violence, it has never changed, it has nothing to do with assault weapons at all. Just a new spin.
     
  8. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Better grab some hi-cap mags for your pistols and rifles while you're at it.
     
  9. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think most of us knew this was gonna happen. Next will be the ammo that these weapons use.
     
  10. DeLorean

    DeLorean Washington/Oregon Member

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    Why should I give up my freedoms just because another country can't control it's people? Doesn't that idea just seem so unbelievably wrong?
     
  11. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    At what point does overthrowing the government come into play? 2nd amendment protects from a tyrannical government. Government that wants me to be CONSIDERABLY less armed than it is seems pretty bad to me. There will be no way to "out gun" the administration after a ban like this takes effect.

    So I ask. At what point does the country stand up and fight?
     
  12. olskool_al

    olskool_al Tacoma, WA Member

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    When I lived in California, the Mexicans were better armed than we were. I like living in the Northwest. All we have to worry about are those well armed canadians. :laugh:
     
  13. Spray-n-pray

    Spray-n-pray Battle Ground Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, you heard it. Banning these types of weapons will keep them from getting across the border into Mexico. You know, we should ban drugs too so we can keep those from getting across the border into the US. Oh, wait.............never mind. :confused:
     
  14. olskool_al

    olskool_al Tacoma, WA Member

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    This is from an armory section in another forum I frequent. Seemed well put together so I thought I would cross post.

    As front page featured today by Fox News:

    The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.
    While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.

    By William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott

    FOXNews.com

    Thursday, April 02, 2009

    You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.

    -- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.

    -- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.

    -- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."

    -- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."

    There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:

    It's just not true.

    In fact, it's not even close. By all accounts, it's probably around 17 percent.

    What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

    But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.


    FILE: In this Nov. 7, 2008, photo a soldier stands guard during the presentation in Mexico City of arms, captured in the largest seizure of Gulf drug-cartel weapons to date, about 288 assault rifles, 500,000 rounds of ammunition, numerous grenades and several .50-caliber rifles (AP).

    "Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

    Video: Click here to watch more on where the guns come from.

    A Look at the Numbers

    In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

    But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

    In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

    So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

    -- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

    -- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.

    - South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

    -- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.

    -- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

    -- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.

    'These Don't Come From El Paso'

    Ed Head, a firearms instructor in Arizona who spent 24 years with the U.S. Border Patrol, recently displayed an array of weapons considered "assault rifles" that are similar to those recovered in Mexico, but are unavailable for sale in the U.S.

    "These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

    Some guns, he said, "are legitimately shipped to the government of Mexico, by Colt, for example, in the United States. They are approved by the U.S. government for use by the Mexican military service. The guns end up in Mexico that way -- the fully auto versions -- they are not smuggled in across the river."

    Many of the fully automatic weapons that have been seized in Mexico cannot be found in the U.S., but they are not uncommon in the Third World.

    The Mexican government said it has seized 2,239 grenades in the last two years -- but those grenades and the rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) are unavailable in U.S. gun shops. The ones used in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Monterrey in October and a TV station in January were made in South Korea. Almost 70 similar grenades were seized in February in the bottom of a truck entering Mexico from Guatemala.

    "Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California," according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.

    Boatloads of Weapons

    So why would the Mexican drug cartels, which last year grossed between $17 billion and $38 billion, bother buying single-shot rifles, and force thousands of unknown "straw" buyers in the U.S. through a government background check, when they can buy boatloads of fully automatic M-16s and assault rifles from China, Israel or South Africa?

    Alberto Islas, a security consultant who advises the Mexican government, says the drug cartels are using the Guatemalan border to move black market weapons. Some are left over from the Central American wars the United States helped fight; others, like the grenades and launchers, are South Korean, Israeli and Spanish. Some were legally supplied to the Mexican government; others were sold by corrupt military officers or officials.

    The exaggeration of United States "responsibility" for the lawlessness in Mexico extends even beyond the "90-percent" falsehood -- and some Second Amendment activists believe it's designed to promote more restrictive gun-control laws in the U.S.

    In a remarkable claim, Auturo Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador to the U.S., said Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States -- 730,000 a year. That's a far cry from the official statistic from the Mexican attorney general's office, which says Mexico seized 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008.

    Chris Cox, spokesman for the National Rifle Association, blames the media and anti-gun politicians in the U.S. for misrepresenting where Mexican weapons come from.

    "Reporter after politician after news anchor just disregards the truth on this," Cox said. "The numbers are intentionally used to weaken the Second Amendment."

    "The predominant source of guns in Mexico is Central and South America. You also have Russian, Chinese and Israeli guns. It's estimated that over 100,000 soldiers deserted the army to work for the drug cartels, and that ignores all the police. How many of them took their weapons with them?"

    But Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center, called the "90 percent" issue a red herring and said that it should not detract from the effort to stop gun trafficking into Mexico.

    "Let's do what we can with what we know," he said. "We know that one **** of a lot of firearms come from the United States because our gun market is wide open."

    The report with video can be found at; http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elec...umber-claimed/
     
  15. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    NICE!:laugh: I love it, good post man!
     
  16. Wenis

    Wenis Tri-Cities, WA Member

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    The wife isn't gonna like getting the credit card bill this month. I was planning on waiting a few more months to buy an AR to actually pay for it outright, like all purchases should be done.
     
  17. beavernation1

    beavernation1 Salem Member

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    wooo hooo I am finally getting mine tomorrow....:yes:.......oh wait I mean ya I will be getting my airsoft gun tomorrow:thumbup:
     
  18. timbernet

    timbernet Boring, Oregon Member

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    Yeah... I normally pay cash for everything... but I might make an exception today....
     
  19. uscsoldier

    uscsoldier Salem, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    :(
     
  20. TMACK

    TMACK clackamas Active Member

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    That's pretty old news. He's going to have a hard time getting it passed considering most of the Democratic Party is against a Ban.