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Never owned a black powder, looking to build/buy a flintlock pistol - but a replica of a specific one

This past week my 18yr old son and I did an East Coast trip to DC and Philadelphia, visiting some great historical sites. In Philadelphia, we visited the National Constitution Center, that had a special display going on about Hamilton. This display included replicas of the "dueling pistols" used that ended his life. My son and I listened to a docent bumble though how the pistols were used and the result. It was painful as even with my limited black powder knowledge I knew the guy was WAY out of his depth. He had zero firearm knowledge. So I figure what better way to learn about what went down than to just buy/build a replica pistol, then shoot it.

Only info I have is this: They were originally manufactured in England by gunsmith Robert Wogdon

The one that's percussion cap, is a conversion that was done to the original flintlock. It's assumed it was done after Hamilton's death from what I understand. I am looking for the flintlock version.

Looking for any leads on buying one or a kit for building one.

Photo:

Hamilton-Burr-dueling-pistols01-sm.jpg
 

tac

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I can point to a ready-made, but you won't be grateful.

Here's a nice example - and by the usual standards, it's VERY cheap, mainly because it's one of a pair and the other one is gorn.


DUP275_01.jpg


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A SCARCE .700 FLINTLOCK RIFLED OFFICERS OR DUELLING PISTOL BY KETLAND & CO. LONDON, CIRCA 1795
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Quick overview:
A scarce .700 flintlock rifled officers or duelling pistol by Ketland & co. London, circa 1795. With Spanish form 25.5cm barrel, sighted, engraved and moulded at the intersection, the breech end signed London in script, private proofs, flat bevel edge lock with stepped and pointed tail Ketland & Co signature below pan. Roller to the frizzen spring, walnut full stock with slab sided and chequered bag shaped butt, short domed butt cap, rear side nail with integral escutcheon, brass pillar fronted trigger guard ball, turned brass thimbles and horn tipped rammer. Overall length 39.5cm.
SKU:DUP275
£1,600.00

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CVA made a limited run of Hamilton/Burr dueling pistol replicas. A google search will turn them up on some of the gun auction sites:


You'll have to prowl the sites looking for a set to become available.

They will set you back some coin.

Not aware of any kits for this specific piece.

As Jeffpdx noted, The Gun Works down in Springfield is a large muzzleloading shop and will have various flintlock pistols/kits. For someone that is completely new to blackpowder you might want to get your feet wet and learn on something that is a little less of a collectors item and more of a shooter.

Pedersoli makes some flintlock dueling pistols that would be contemporaries of the Hamilton/Burr pistols and are quite accurate. Same company that made the flintlock shotgun I let you shoot out at TCGC a few weeks ago. If you want, you can shoot my LePage and get some idea of what you're getting yourself into.
 
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AndyinEverson

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Flintlocks are fun to own and shoot...and they do shoot well.
As noted above The GunWorks can help you out as can Pedersoli....

That said Pedersoli makes a fine shooter , but none of their guns are 100% historically accurate..
If you really want a historically accurate gun , you will need to research the time period you are interested in ...and get a custom gun built...Buy a used custom gun....or buy an original historic gun.

Most kits are pretty good as far as being historically correct ....but you may need to re-shape and re-size things like sights ...not put in a vent liner or if you do put one one in...file the screwdriver slot off of it , make sure the lock uses a leaf spring , not a coil spring , use walnut if its a English or European gun , not maple , etc...

I suppose it depends on just how serious you want to get with being Historically correct....
Andy
Edit to add :
The pistols in the OP have a sliding safety on the lockplate...I do not know of a replica lock , custom or production that recreates that feature....
 

turq

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I have a small flint Lock ; might be too big for a dueling pistol and prob. Definitely not historic correct.
I used to live in Spfd.,OR The Gun Works was some thing to ride my bike by on the way to Eugene in the day. Cool kits/ parts, none better.
 
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AndyinEverson

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tac

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@OP - so unless you are prepared to do some searching for the replica pair, you have a selection of options -

1. Build your own. Watch the series on Youtube by Mike Belliveau on building a flinter. It's well-worth downloading into a file. Be prepared for some serious hand-crafting, or buy a Pedersoli kit.

2. Get somebody to make it for you - much $$$$$$$$$ and a waiting time of years.

3. Buy the nearest thing you can find to an original - my example from Henry Krank at £1600 here in yUK is the economy end of a duelling pistol pair, and only because it is neither cased with accoutrements nor paired with its twin. Typically, start thinking in lower to middle five figures for pairs with names attached to them.

4. Make do with what there is. The Charles Moore flinter is VERY near the Burr/Hamilton style. It is not 'zackly like a real Charles Moore, as Andy noted, but as we say, near enough for government work. It has been used to win countless international medals, if that any significance for you.

In the end, a visit with Joe and Suzi is going to be your best best, IMO. Some nice eateries just across the street, too. :)

They have this currently in store -
602726


Or this beautiful pair that I fondled last year......and trust me, these are a genuine bargain with a good name. Trouble is, Joe doesn't take ten-year lay-away plans....
P-96-921.jpg
* Click on the picture to see an enlarged photo.​
Original - Half Stock - Cased Pair - Percussion - 58Cal(P-96-92)$5,000.00
Condition: Very Good - Cased PairManufactured by H Nock - London
Pieces: 1 Stock: European Walnut
Barrel Length: 10in
Caliber: .58
Diameter: 7/8in to 3/4in
These Original - Cased .58 caliber half stock pistols have tapered 7/8" to 3/4" x 10" octagon damascus smooth bore barrels that are fitted with fixed sights. Inscribed on the top flat is H Nock Maker to his Majesty Ludgate Hill London. There are English proof marks on the bottom flat of the barrels. The P+ grade checkered European Walnut stocks are fitted with browned steel furniture, including a German silver thumb piece, escutcheons and nose cap. They have single set triggers. The percussion locks with an outside safety, are tastefully engraved, as is the trigger guard, breech plug and tang. These pistols are housed in a wooden velvet lined presentation case with the following accouterments: a loading rod, cap tin, oiler, screw driver, mold, powder flask that holds powder, patches and balls and a key. Please Note: The presentation case and some of the accouterments are reproductions. Very good wood to metal fit - made by H Nock - Maker to his Majesty Ludgate Hill London. Condition: Very Good - Cased Pair.
 
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tac

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I have a small flint Lock ; might be too big for a dueling pistol and prob. Definitely not historic correct.
I used to live in Spfd.,OR The Gun Works was some thing to ride my bike by on the way to Eugene in the day. Cool kits/ parts, none better.
Duelling pistols were frequently found up to .60cal and SMOOTHBORE. Only Les Frogs are said to have the habit of cheating by rifling the barrel, thus ensuring that SOMEBODY was going to take a hit. On many occasions, the willingness to stand and take a ball unflinchingly was the sign of a true and honourable gentleman. Many a ball was 'shot into air' and the pair walked away. Only serious grudges, like the Hamilton/Burr match, were likely to result in injury or death, and remember that in those days, most gunshot injuries to the body were likely to result in a prolonged and agonising death from septicaemia.

Latterly, some British makers adopted what was euphemistically called 'scratch rifling, down at the chamber end, but in truth, owning a pair of rifled duelling pistols 'of the French style' was the sign of an utter cad, a bounder, and scoundrel, to say the least.
 
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@Roundball58 it's your operations brief and demonstration, then letting me shoot your gun at TCGC that told me the docent at the National Museum had no idea what he was talking about. Again thank you for that!

Outstanding information from everyone, thank you. I think I am best to buy a pre-made one, I just don't have the time to build one from the kits I see. I will plan a trip down to The Gun Works. Something that is close to the originals is will do fine for our needs. We just want to experience something close to what was used by Hamilton.
 
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@Roundball58 it's your operations brief and demonstration, then letting me shoot your gun at TCGC that told me the docent at the National Museum had no idea what he was talking about. Again thank you for that!

Outstanding information from everyone, thank you. I think I am best to buy a pre-made one, I just don't have the time to build one from the kits I see. I will plan a trip down to The Gun Works. Something that is close to the originals is will do fine for our needs. We just want to experience something close to what was used by Hamilton.
Joe and Suzi should get you set up with a pistol and everything you need to shoot/care for it. Just remember, Joe will tell you what you need, but Suzi is the one who knows where everything is in the shop.

Make sure you read up on the BP range rules, its a bit different from the rest of the club ranges.

If you need help with the shooting part, let me know and we can meet up at the BP range.
 
Joe and Suzi should get you set up with a pistol and everything you need to shoot/care for it. Just remember, Joe will tell you what you need, but Suzi is the one who knows where everything is in the shop.

Make sure you read up on the BP range rules, its a bit different from the rest of the club ranges.

If you need help with the shooting part, let me know and we can meet up at the BP range.

Outstanding thank you. I will reach out if/when I have questions. I appreciate the offer to meet up on the BP range.
 

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