Neighbor Pulls his Handgun On Me

[Bushman]

I absolutely hate situations like this. The stakes are VERY high, and now you are roped into a game you must play. The first to report is generally the "victim" and that makes all the difference. So as much as I absolutely hate getting law enforcement involved and a restraining order, that's the game you have to play. A restraining order is going to get ugly, and you might also expect to have one served on you. That or "red flag" (not sure if they have them there) is going to likely disarm you.

But this isn't going to likely end well. Tread carefully b/c I predict someone in jail, or disarmed, or sued, or dead. You should move as soon as possible.

Highly recommend immediately installing security cameras in all directions and covering all angles and your vehicle, shed, etc. If you have pets, monitor them. Your dogs and cats may end up missing or dead, poisoned, whatever. Property may be destroyed or stolen.

I would highly recommend moving as soon as possible. See if you can break your lease without penalty given the lethal threat, making it uninhabitable. Be out next week if possible. You might - thru an intermediary like your landlord - get an agreement with the other person neither of you is pursuing legal action and you are moving. All peaceful like so no headaches for anyone.

I've seen and personally experienced so much of this it's horrible to be involved in it. 20 years ago I was living in a formerly nice middle class neighborhood that experienced - let's just say an infestation of lower class folks who listen to loud music in their cars all day and night, sell drugs, etc.. The demographics changed overnight and property values dropped like a stone. One day my girlfriend came over and some young men working on a car on blocks next door cat called her. I yelled at them from my front yard, and I immediately had 3 or 4 very "colorful" men in my face in my front yard and one pulled a knife on me. If I had been armed I'd have had several corpses in my front yard. Luckily it was just tough talk on their part. I moved away days later.

Sad that this is the world we live in now. Scumbags act the fool and we must turn and run...

The liberals dream has come true. Funny thing these laws were written by scumbags so they can act lime scumbags with impunity...you attack them you lose.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Buy a wearable camera (w/ sound) and turn it on whenever you are outside of your place.



Then go and dig a deep hole way out

 

[No_Regerts]

Had a similar thing happen to me while camping once. Some redneck and his gf and fat bubblegum buddy show up demand to shoot where we are camping (my gf and I). He didn't point the 5 shot revolver at me but he pulled it and exited his vehicle, held it at the low ready demanding to see my hands. I didn't draw on him. He would have lost, 4 mags on belt vs 5 shot revolver at 10 yards...

Cops came, found the weapon we described, didn't arrest him. They agreed that this was bad, but they didn't arrest the moron. We too were like WTF. Follow up call with deputy dufus he sank in his chair when I asked him if he found the weapon we described...he paused and stuttered..."yes". Why didn't you arrest him then? Well he didn't step out of his vehicle. YES HI DID MORON, we told you that on the scene...and you can go to jail for threatening someone with a gun from even inside a vehicle....I have the 911 recording as well as the dipbubblegum deputies involved on video. Media was interested but they never got a hold of anyone at the SD so they stopped following up....

LE is basically there to harass law abiding citizens...

"He did this"

"No I didn't, and I'll be exercising my right to remain silent"

No PC.

 

[Kruel J]

LE is basically there to harass law abiding citizens...

You paint with REALLY broad strokes.

 

[Bushman]

"He did this"

"No I didn't, and I'll be exercising my right to remain silent"

No PC.

Strange they arrest people for the exact same circumstances all the time....with the exact same lack of probable cause. I don't think many people realize probable cause means 51% as far as a legal standard, not 100%. If it's more likely that he did it than not then they should arrest and let the prosecutors office decide whether to file charges or not. If they do, a jury should decide....Or do the cops think this guy called 911 for his health and made up the story?

The below article is the same circumstances yet he was arrested for 1st degree assault...I was in a similar situation in the woods with my gf and some redneck came and pulled a gun demanding to shoot where we were camping. 911 recording, video of cops admitting this was a bad situation, found the gun we described...they let him go. I asked why, they said he didn't step out of the vehicle...except we repeatedly told them he did...he drew a gun and jumped out and took cover behind the door, when no one had any weapons visible...except him....Of course this deputy had such low critical thinking skills that apparently assault with a deadly weapon can only occur if you exit the vehicle (which he did and we told him and is obvious on the 911 call). We were able to describe the revolver and it doesn't matter whether he was in the vehicle or not, he held it at low ready while taking cover for no reason at all. He was connected or something...they found the weapon we described and admitted it...still no arrest. Media was interested in the story.

Deputies arrest Longview man after allegedly pointing gun at neighbor

Cowlitz County sheriff’s deputies arrested a 76-year-old Longview man Thursday evening after he allegedly pointed a gun at his Eufaula Heights area neighbor during a dispute.

tdn.com

Cowlitz County sheriff's deputies arrested a 76-year-old Longview man Thursday evening after he allegedly pointed a gun at his Eufaula Heights area neighbor during a dispute.


The neighbor told dispatchers the dispute was over parking while trying to move a trailer, said Chief Criminal Deputy Troy Brightbill. Douglas Arthur Burke allegedly pointed the firearm at his neighbor, who fled and called 911, Brightbill said.
Deputies found a firearm matching the neighbor's description, and Burke was arrested on suspicion of first- degree assault, Brightbill said.

 

[Bushman]

Quite interesting that if you are pulled over with a high capacity magazine in some areas, you go to jail.

You shoot someone in obvious self defense (George Zimmerman) you go to trial after jail.

My truck got broken into...report over the phone.

License plates stolen...report over the phone.

Catalytic converter stolen...report over the phone.

Have read many stories of people who are pulled over WITH the stolen Kayak (true story) and still let go.

Meanwhile I get pulled over...declare I'm carrying a gun when asked....so they must take my gun and run the serial number....

 

[No_Regerts]

Strange they arrest people for the exact same circumstances all the time....with the exact same lack of probable cause. I don't think many people realize probable cause means 51% as far as a legal standard, not 100%. If it's more likely that he did it than not then they should arrest. Or do the cops think this guy called 911 for his health and made up the story?

Deputies arrest Longview man after allegedly pointing gun at neighbor

Cowlitz County sheriff’s deputies arrested a 76-year-old Longview man Thursday evening after he allegedly pointed a gun at his Eufaula Heights area neighbor during a dispute.

tdn.com

Cowlitz County sheriff's deputies arrested a 76-year-old Longview man Thursday evening after he allegedly pointed a gun at his Eufaula Heights area neighbor during a dispute.


The neighbor told dispatchers the dispute was over parking while trying to move a trailer, said Chief Criminal Deputy Troy Brightbill. Douglas Arthur Burke allegedly pointed the firearm at his neighbor, who fled and called 911, Brightbill said.
Deputies found a firearm matching the neighbor's description, and Burke was arrested on suspicion of first- degree assault, Brightbill said.

Probably didn't exercise his right to remain silent, or a corroborating witness or form of evidence.

BTW, 51% is preponderance, not probable cause. Probable cause is a lesser standard of evidence, but a standard that has to be met.

 

[No_Regerts]

Quite interesting that if you are pulled over with a high capacity magazine in some areas, you go to jail.

You shoot someone in obvious self defense (George Zimmerman) you go to trial after jail.

My truck got broken into...report over the phone.

License plates stolen...report over the phone.

Catalytic converter stolen...report over the phone.

Have read many stories of people who are pulled over WITH the stolen Kayak (true story) and still let go.

Meanwhile I get pulled over...declare I'm carrying a gun when asked....so they must take my gun and run the serial number....

I get your frustration, based on anecdotes and a lack of context, but you can thank your legislators and other elected officials like prosecutors. Property crime laws were greatly weakened by the legislature over the last 10 years. It's earned WA a place at the bottom of list of worst states for property crime. In some counties, we can't even book someone for anything other than a Class A or B felony. Everything else is dealt with by criminal summons because that's all that can be done. We don't make policy, we are the instruments of policy.

 

[Bushman]

Probably didn't exercise his right to remain silent, or a corroborating witness or form of evidence.

BTW, 51% is preponderance, not probable cause. Probable cause is a lesser standard of evidence, but a standard that has to be met.

All it said was they found the firearm matching the description...as in, the victim made a claim, was able to describe the gun from his claim. Which means a gun was likely pulled on him just like he said. He may have admitted it or not, but it doesn't say that in the article, just says they found the gun described and arrested him, which makes sense. A liar wouldn't know the weapon description.

This reminds me of a thread I had loooong ago someplace about marking your gun in some way that is easily seen as unique...for this very reason. A Glock or Sig is very easy to describe "black gun". If your gun has a blaze orange color around the muzzle, then they are clearly lying. I still never found a way to make it unique for this purpose.

Deputies found a firearm matching the neighbor's description, and Burke was arrested on suspicion of first- degree assault, Brightbill said.

I take it you are LE?

 

[No_Regerts]

All it said was they found the firearm matching the description...as in, the victim made a claim, was able to describe the gun from his claim. Which means a gun was likely pulled on him just like he said. He may have admitted it or not, but it doesn't say that in the article, just says they found the gun described and arrested him, which makes sense. A liar wouldn't know the weapon description.

This reminds me of a thread I had loooong ago someplace about marking your gun in some way that is easily seen as unique...for this very reason. A Glock or Sig is very easy to describe "black gun". If your gun has a blaze orange color around the muzzle, then they are clearly lying. I still never found a way to make it unique for this purpose.

Deputies found a firearm matching the neighbor's description, and Burke was arrested on suspicion of first- degree assault, Brightbill said.

I take it you are LE?

I am an LEO. Contrasting that case with the situation at the camp site, would it have been reasonable that the gun was seen while being used for target practice? May not have been, but reasonable? That would be a fairly believable lie. On the other hand, what would be a lawful or reasonable reason to see someone's gun in the parking lot of an apartment? All things to consider.

 

[Bushman]

I am an LEO. Contrasting that case with the situation at the camp site, would it have been reasonable that the gun was seen while being used for target practice? May not have been, but reasonable? That would be a fairly believable lie. On the other hand, what would be a lawful or reasonable reason to see someone's gun in the parking lot of an apartment? All things to consider.

Again, no. We were camping there. You can't shoot within 150 feet of an occupied camp site. He would have been shooting AT where we were camping....And the 911 call recording (which I have) clearly shows that he was not target shooting. He basically told us he was gonna shoot there with us there or not, I told him I'm calling 911, he flips out, starts reaching for something in the back, loading it, then flings the door open violently and steps out starts issuing commands.

Unfortunately my gf delayed us in getting setup and I did not have my long gun out like I normally do. I didn't escalate it by drawing sidearm, considering he didn't POINT the gun at us. But still...he brandished the weapon and threatened us with it. If you heard the 911 call you'd clearly see this guy was being belligerent and threatening. If he had pointed it at us I would have drawn and pointed back from behind cover but not fired unless I absolutely had to. In the end I desc-elated it by NOT drawing. I knew I had the advantage though, I train at that distance regularly and had 4 large mags on my belt. He had a 5 shot revolver...

Crazy things can happen. A friend of mine was out in a remote area driving to meet up with me (I was coming later). Truck was stopped in the middle of the road. Kids come running out of the woods out of nowhere on his 4 and some guy on his 9 up on a hill in the dark starts yelling. Friend shines a light at the voice to see what's going on, are they armed, etc. Guy comes running down the hill and in his face. Was twice his size. Tells him to leave now. Friend draws his gun and holds it behind his leg because he was in fear for his life, remote area, this guy, two kids, wife, who knows what's going on, do they have weapons, why is the truck stopped in the middle of the road blocking. Guy ended up getting in his truck and leaving. Could have gone sideways real quick though, what would the wife and kids say happened...some sob tale that stretches the truth I'm sure. Anyways all ended well. But yeah, he also had some situations like that as well before where he pulled out his AK.

Maybe it was a different time 20 years ago though, I don't know.

 

[No_Regerts]

Again, no. We were camping there. You can't shoot within 150 feet of an occupied camp site. He would have been shooting AT where we were camping....And the 911 call recording (which I have) clearly shows that he was not target shooting. He basically told us he was gonna shoot there with us there or not. Unfortunately my gf delayed us in getting setup and I did not have my long gun out like I normally do. I didn't escalate it by drawing, considering he didn't POINT the gun at us. But still...he brandished the weapon and threatened us with it. If you heard the 911 call you'd clearly see this guy was being belligerent and threatening.

Crazy things can happen. A friend of mine was out in a remote area driving to meet up with me (I was coming later). Truck was stopped in the middle of the road. Kids come running out of the woods out of nowhere on his 4 and some guy on his 9 up on a hill in the dark starts yelling. Friend shines a light at the voice to see what's going on, are they armed, etc. Guy comes running down the hill and in his face. Was twice his size. Tells him to leave now. Friend draws his gun and holds it behind his leg because he was in fear for his life, remote area, this guy, two kids, wife, who knows what's going on, do they have weapons, why is the truck stopped in the middle of the road blocking. Guy ended up getting in his truck and leaving. Could have gone sideways real quick though, what would the wife and kids say happened...some sob tale that stretches the truth I'm sure. Anyways all ended well. But yeah, he also had some situations like that as well before where he pulled out his AK.

Maybe it was a different time 20 years ago though, I don't know.

You could hear the guy on the recording?

 

[NW Backpacker]

As for not putting up with bullying and standing your ground.... I was told in Driving School at age 15 that you can insist on your Right Of Way.... that won't stop you from getting killed.

Reminds me of the old Navy joke about a US Naval ship and the Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland:

https://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=174

US Ship: Please divert your course 0.5 degrees to the south to avoid a collision.
CND reply: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
US Ship: This is the Captain of a US Navy Ship. I say again, divert your course.
CND reply: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course!
US Ship: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS CORAL SEA*, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!!
CND reply: This is a lighthouse. Your call.

 

[Tilos]

Or maybe the he-said/he-said didn't amount to probable cause? Especially before a holiday weekend that doesn't allow you to get someone in front of a judge in 72 hours. The report got written, it just didn't result in an arrest On THAT date.

You know, constitutional rights and stuff.

yeh maybe/what if...the reason it has earned the name "cop-out".
Sorry, cops all have the same book of answers/excuses and most of us have heard them.
It's just that our interactions with you is so infrequent we buy into your often repeated stories/logic because we don't hear them often.
With all the new "live" cop/body cam/emergency shows on the tube 3 hours/ 4-5 nights a week, it's not hard to watch a few and pick up the pattern of speech most cops use, not only on the dirt bags but the average joe blow who gets stopped.

Dirt Bags don't have any money, can't pay any fines, and arresting a DB for something like brandishing does not generate any revenue, just cost, now grabbing a soccer Mom's BMW with that radar gun...cha-Ching...

I have a lot of respect for anyone who straps on a gun and goes out looking for trouble as a profession, but know too, that not all they do is what you are trying to get us to believe.
couldn't find an appropriate emoji,

 

[Certaindeaf]

A few weeks ago I started a thread about my looming interest in purchase of my first AK Style rifle. I am still very interested due to the technical aspects and the robust design. I was looking to trade my NIB Bergara B14 HMR.

My truck rifle is clunky yet utterly reliable thus far. It is a early 1990's Bushmaster. I put a folding stock and carry handle sights on it. This AR has a 1:9 H Bar heavy duty barrel. Emphasis on heavy. It shoots great using the original trigger. I organized and loaded up my 40 or so magazines last year. Lots with the some less than stellar hand loads that need to disappear on range practice. (these had primer seating issues now resolved).

I keep this rifle ready with 62 grain XM 855 FMJ green tip. A few years ago I shot these at a 3/8" steel target of mine. This was at 100 yards , they cut right through.
I can't recall ever shooting any .223/5.56 that wasn't surplus or a hand load.

So now I wonder if I should buy some "Home Defense" labeled rounds?

Getting back to the AK, I decided against the Galil Ace for a second time. It is definitely not handy for me. Also I am back to the bane of hand loaders , being stocking another type of ammunition. My research tells me that 7.62 is definitely the most fun and utilitarian. The 5.45 x 39 seems to be the best choice for accuracy and shooting. I see some AK's are 5.56. I will research that next as well as body armour.

Regular 55gr ball is surprisingly frangible, generally penetrating through less wall type material than the common handgun rounds.

 

[Bushman]

You could hear the guy on the recording?

OH YEAH! Swearing and yelling the whole time. You can also clearly hear my gf telling him to put the gun down. Like I said cops, during a follow up call I asked for when I got home, admitted they found the weapon we described....you can clearly hear my gf and I were distressed, he had us blocked in so we couldn't leave. I told him that and suggested he wait for the police by the road. He didn't at first. He waited there for 40 minutes or so then eventually left. Cops stopped him as he was leaving the forest. Four deputies searched him and found the gun. You could feel them sink during the call when I asked them if they found the gun we desribed....looooooong pause with a very muffle "yes". As in, yeah we messed up....seems like these guys had to be walked through some reasoning process...his excuse for not arresting him was that he didn't get out of the vehicle. We did I told him. Even on the 911 call you can hear it because the call taker stayed on the whole time and asked what they were dong and we described that he was out of the vehicle barricaded behind the door of his truck at the low ready telling us to get our hands up...so apparently as long as you don't threaten anyone from outside your vehicle you're golden....according to this deputies logic. Except it doesn't matter in or out of the vehicle it's still a crime and he was OUT of the vehicle....

 

[Rudedog]

I would end this thread now if I knew how.
I will see what is up tomorrow. Thank you all for your interest .

 

[Bushman]

I would end this thread now if I knew how.
I will see what is up tomorrow. Thank you all for your interest .

I feel for you. I had my own WTF moment a few years ago. News Tribune, Komo, half a dozen places contacted me about it and were interested in it. Unfortunately no one from the SD ever called them back....Maybe I'll post it to youtube and see if it goes Viral. The guys name is on the audio, he yelled out his name clearly, I wonder if I have to bleep that out...I mean I don't think so since it was a public space and he knew I was on 911 and it's common knowledge those calls are recorded....

 

[Bushman]

yeh maybe/what if...the reason it has earned the name "cop-out".
Sorry, cops all have the same book of answers/excuses and most of us have heard them.
It's just that our interactions with you is so infrequent we buy into your often repeated stories/logic because we don't hear them often.
With all the new "live" cop/body cam/emergency shows on the tube 3 hours/ 4-5 nights a week, it's not hard to watch a few and pick up the pattern of speech most cops use, not only on the dirt bags but the average joe blow who gets stopped.

Dirt bags don't have any money, can't pay any fines, and arresting one for something like brandishing does not generate any revenue, just cost, now grabbing a soccer Mom's BMW with that radar gun...cha-ching...

I have a lot of respect for anyone who straps on a gun and goes out looking for trouble as a profession, but know too, that not all they do is what you are trying to get us to believe.
couldn't find an appropriate emoji,

Don't forget civil asset forfeiture...no proof of a crime, no due process, but you have to sue to get the money back, which in most cases, it costs 10K to sue to get 5K back...and the PD get's to use the car/cash/whatever for Police use....

Oh reminds me of the cops who came out when I called to have my neighbors vehicles removed from my driveway. Sergeant started yelling at ME for no reason. Just on a power trip. They claimed be neighborly...uhm...apparently they missed the 2 times I told them this was the 5th time they were parked in my driveway and I have pictures and documentation to that fact and I had them on video asking them to move their vehicles and they just laughed at me. Cops said, install a gate...I'm like, I don't need to install a gate, I need them to stop parking in my driveway. They said it's a civil matter. I said NOPE. I hired an attorney who told me it's a criminal matter, so here I am, county records in hand, boundaries are marked, this is my property and I want their 3 vehicles REMOVED. Neither you nor they get to decide who parks in my driveway (it was a large circular driveway in front of the house, they had like 8 people living there and their lot was small so they always liked to park in mine....Funny thing is when they realized I was recording it they just about crapped their pants and started saying YES SIR, YOU CAN CALL US SIR, WE'LL take care of it SIR! When before they were giving me attitude and yelling at me that this is not their problem when my neighbor parked in my driveway and I told them I have pics, video and emails of each time they've done this and I've asked them not to or to move and they refuse.....I pay 40K a year in property taxes (I own rentals) to be hassled when I'm the victim....Literally EVERY single time. I asked them if I can just trespass in Safeway when asked to leave and if they would yell at Safeway and tell them I can stay on Safeway's private property....

 

[No_Regerts]

yeh maybe/what if...the reason it has earned the name "cop-out".
Sorry, cops all have the same book of answers/excuses and most of us have heard them.
It's just that our interactions with you is so infrequent we buy into your often repeated stories/logic because we don't hear them often.
With all the new "live" cop/body cam/emergency shows on the tube 3 hours/ 4-5 nights a week, it's not hard to watch a few and pick up the pattern of speech most cops use, not only on the dirt bags but the average joe blow who gets stopped.

Dirt Bags don't have any money, can't pay any fines, and arresting a DB for something like brandishing does not generate any revenue, just cost, now grabbing a soccer Mom's BMW with that radar gun...cha-Ching...

I have a lot of respect for anyone who straps on a gun and goes out looking for trouble as a profession, but know too, that not all they do is what you are trying to get us to believe.
couldn't find an appropriate emoji,

I found an emoji for you. You're talking out of your