Nazi terrorism on MAX

[skeezix]

I feel sorry for the victims and their families, however exactly what did the victims accomplish? Bigoted talk as ugly as it can be, is not worth your life. If he was physically attacking innocent people than you could justify interjecting. Sad to see people step into the middle of words and lose their lives for it.

Worth repeating!

 

[Massolo]

I think people need to brace themselves for the possibility of him getting off on self defense. The Supreme Court ruled that words do not justify violence. His shouting his epithets, though vile, were not a physical attack. It wasn't until he was confronted by three men, who according to one story, who tried to escort him off the train, did he attack. If true, the three men engaged in attempted kidnapping and assault. It will depend on if he can hire his own attorney though. If he can't, he'll be found guilty, as that is how our system works. But if he can, he will probably walk. But saying that he was not mentally ill before this, is in itself insane. He should have been forced into an eval long before he ran amok.

 

[Stomper]

If by "eval" you mean forced feet first into the hopper of an industrial meat grinder.... I agree.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I hate to jump in on a thread to point out something that I imagine will put me in pretty lonely company here, but I'll go ahead and take the opportunity to point out that fascism by definition is right-leaning, authoritian nationalism.

I don't say that to accuse any Trump supporter of being fascist—far from it—but many of Trump's actions since taking office are clearly authoritian, nationalistic, and one would be hard-pressed to find a more clear example of fascistic action.

Certainly American history has many examples of abuse of power, authoritianism, and so on—always at the cost of individual citizens' rights. In spite of (mostly liberal) personal attacks conflating distain and fascism, it is a real thing with a real definition, and Trump and some of his cohort are not coy about fitting its definition.

First off, the Nazis, the original fascist, along with Mussolini, were a variation of left-wing socialist movements. Hence the formal name of Hitler's party:
"The National Socialist German Workers' Party."
Please note the specific mention of "Socialist" and "Worker" with the same connotation carried by socialist/communist movements extolled by worker's parties since the days of Marx and Lenin.
So fascism by its own admission was not an authoritarian right idea, but an authoritarian leftist movement.

Furthermore, on the notion that Trump's actions are of an authoritarian nature, following the actions taken by obama and hidden from Americans by a complicit media:
Everything from "you can keep your doctor."
To Fast&Furious.
To the secretive Iran Deal.
To widespread spying, unmasking and tracking of Americans by obama's NSA.
And more,...

I give you the words of Barry Goldwater:
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."

If Trump is using his "authority" to abolish bad policies put in place by obama I have no problem with that.
If you do, let me remind you of something obama said early on about putting his policies in place,...
"Elections have consequences." (and it may have been one of the few things I agreed with him about)

So whether you believe those policies were bad or not, the end result is the same.
For me, I have serious doubts as to whether or not the United States of America we all grew up in would have survived a hillary presidency.
But I'm reasonably sure it will survive with Trump as president.

 

[Stomper]

First off, the Nazis, the original fascist, along with Mussolini, were a variation of left-wing socialist movements. Hence the formal name of Hitler's party:
"The National Socialist German Workers' Party."
Please note the specific mention of "Socialist" and "Worker" with the same connotation carried by socialist/communist movements extolled by worker's parties since the days of Marx and Lenin.

Furthermore, on the notion that Trump's actions are of an authoritarian nature, following the actions taken by obama and hidden from Americans by a complicit media:
Everything from "you can keep your doctor."
To Fast&Furious.
To the secretive Iran Deal.
To widespread spying, unmasking and tracking of Americans by obama's NSA.
And more,...

I give you the words of Barry Goldwater:
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."

If Trump is using his "authority" to abolish bad policies put in place by obama I have no problem with that.
If you do, let me remind you of something obama said early on about putting his policies in place,...
"Elections have consequences." (and it may have been one of the few things I agreed with him about)

So whether you believe those policies were bad or not, the end result is the same.
For me, I have serious doubts as to whether or not the United States of America we all grew up in would have survived a hillary presidency.
But I'm reasonably sure it will survive with Trump as president.

Jamie.... some people, you just can't reach.... no matter WHAT size wooden mallet you're swingin'.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

in my opinion Max wasn't about transportation, it was a vehicle to enrich real estate developers and speculators. If you look at the history of Portland, they have run the show for almost the last 150 years. They only want to put their money on sure bets and tons of return. Almost like a bunch of mini Trumps running Portland. All the rest is just window dressing.

A bit about Max. During the 70's Portland was about to build 2 or 3 new freeways. The existing freeways and the ones being built has consumed a great amount of real estate, never to be returned for other uses. Also caused a great deal of upheaval and destroyed the real estate industry of Portland nice little compartmentalization and the little fiefdoms that had ruled Portland's real estate market for so long. They soon realized that the new freeways were no friend to them. They came up with a plan, 1st stop all new freeways and then find a way to move all those people the freeways were supposed to move using as little private land as possible. Max was born.

Next was to get the zoning changed, so you could build retail and high density housing within 5 blocks on either side of max lines. This would return greater profits on investment because the cost per unit goes down and the sale price per unit goes up. A few years back a guy I knew had bought a house and quarter acre within what was to be the Max area years before Max was even built. He figured he would build a 5 unit apartment on the land and use the rents as his retirement income. When he finally went to build they told him he had build at least 20 or 25 units, he couldn't build just 5. He was not a rich person, a sort of well off tradesman who worked hard and judiciously spent and saved his money. He could just barely afford to build the 5 units he had planned for, the 20-25 unit requirement was not something he could not even remotely afford to do and no one would finance it. Sadly he sold a couple of years later and some real estate developer reaped a windfall.

So this little formula is repeated on all the LR lines, 1-use public property for routing the lines as much as possible 2-change all buildable areas zoning along the lines to retail and high density housing to maximize profits for developers 3-sit back watch all of Portland mini Trumps rake in the money. Note that none of them I know of rides public transportation to work or lives close to a LR line. As an aside mini Trumps have been yelling for almost the last 20 years about how Portland needs a big hotel near the convention center. But not one of them will put his own money into building it. They want the taxpayers to take all the risks so they can rake in the profits-if there are any and the taxpayers take the probable losses. I know that some of this sounds a tin foil hattish but think about it for a min.

 

[Flymph]

Too bad he didn't have a gun considering he was an upstanding law-abiding member of the community, and an Army veteran, and a hero. I wonder how friendly the city is to concealed carry?
This is why I avoid gun free zones, that and the fact that I'm always carrying on or off body.

No open carry, CCW only... the rest of the state is open carry, except maybe in Salem, Eugene and Ashland. I'll check when I go to those places.

 

[Flymph]

Let's not dishonor the victims with political squabbles...
Let's just hope this culprit gets what's coming to him, and swiftly.

Drop him over an ISIS base, I'm sure they know what to do. Heck, maybe he'll even take a few of them out with him.

 

[Dungannon]

And some people wonder why I don't want MAX extended to Vancouver!? It was weird when I rode it to work downtown ten years ago, and seems to only have gotten worse. That video lines up with an online article about a friend describing him as full of rage, and a hatred for all religious systems. He wanted to move to Brazil; too bad he didn't.
<broken link removed>

 

[Core]

Worth repeating!

I've been in this type of situation several times before. I understand a veteran died and the gravity of the situation. The sad thing is the media probably did a horrible job of reporting the incident and as some have mentioned the victims may have played roles in evoking an attack as well intentioned samaritans. As someone who has been in these type of situations many times before, I have learned a great deal about descalation of force. I worked three years as an NBP Unit Coordinator taking care of adults with neuro behavior issues. Some were extremely dangerous, and I have had to resolve many life threatening attacks from folks who cannot control themselves. My unit housed the most dangerous adults all physically able. After my time running this unit, I joined the Navy and worked CT/AT. I've seen some bubblegum, and worked in some of the most dangerous environments on Earth. I was trained by an old Master Chief who worked across the lines back in the cloak and dagger days. I learned to look, listen, and analyze my surroundings. Often times it's best to remove yourself from the environment if you are unprepared or not authorized to resolve the matter. Dealing with civilians has greater risk, and assessing someone's state of mind and intent is tricky. It's best to know the laws and customs and be as capable as you can be. Prepare, stay strong, fast, and well trained both physically and mentally. A sad trend I see here in America is the popular notion that when someone has an opinion or makes a statement that is not politically correct, many folks overreact to it. We have to remember that everyone is entitled to rant and rave and express themselves. Most cases we can remove ourselves from the environment, if not you may need to rain calm and keep your opinion to yourself. Arguing with a madman is futile. Just prepare yourself, keep your mouth shut, and call authorities if possible. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot him once the knife came out on the bus, but I would have stayed uninvolved until he attacked. I've had to disarm numerous guys with deadly weapons, and I'll tell you training is key to survival. I've seen other staff get sent off in the ambulance and never work again. I recommend everyone to pay and attend certification in non violent physical restraint training. It only takes a few classes and a buddy to practice with, but it could save many lives in these types of situations.

 

[greghaz]

ALWAYS CARRY!!!

Too bad no one on that train was carrying.

 

[greghaz]

I somewhat agree with you, but disagree that the DA would have exploded. My dad is a DA of 32 years and I have talked to him about the situation and what he would have done if a good guy pulled a gun to deescalate the situation and he said that he would be perfectly fine with it. He used to supervise the unit that is handling the case and they have handled MANY cases involving the use of a firearm, They know their stuff. Also, DAs in that unit are not allowed to take a case if they have any relations within or are against any form of defense used by the victim.

I know who your Dad is and he is a good honest man with principals. We need more DAs like him.

 

[Core]

I know who your Dad is and he is a good honest man with principals. We need more DAs like him.

I know several good DAs and Judges here in my part of the country. They will drop charges on legitimate cases of self defense. It really affirms and reminds me that there are still good folks with good values in the judicial system. But we do have a few extremists in the ranks. I regret not having chosen law, some of the most fascinating people I have met are working in the judicial system.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Often times it's best to remove yourself from the environment if you are unprepared or not authorized to resolve the matter.

It is hard to remove yourself from a closed passenger car of a moving train.

 

[EPS]

I think people need to brace themselves for the possibility of him getting off on self defense. The Supreme Court ruled that words do not justify violence. His shouting his epithets, though vile, were not a physical attack. It wasn't until he was confronted by three men, who according to one story, who tried to escort him off the train, did he attack. If true, the three men engaged in attempted kidnapping and assault. It will depend on if he can hire his own attorney though. If he can't, he'll be found guilty, as that is how our system works. But if he can, he will probably walk. But saying that he was not mentally ill before this, is in itself insane. He should have been forced into an eval long before he ran amok.

Your first part about the law is right but in Liberal Portland he's going to prison if Oregon had a Death sentence he would get it THE ONLY PEOPLE ALLOWED TO ASSAULT PEOPLE AND GET AWAY WITH IT ARE ON THE LEFT

 

[jsparks747]

I know who your Dad is and he is a good honest man with principals. We need more DAs like him.

Chuck Sparks? That would be him.

 

[jsparks747]

I know several good DAs and Judges here in my part of the country. They will drop charges on legitimate cases of self defense. It really affirms and reminds me that there are still good folks with good values in the judicial system. But we do have a few extremists in the ranks. I regret not having chosen law, some of the most fascinating people I have met are working in the judicial system.

It is always affirming to have someone who isn't anti-gun in our ranks of law. That's one of the reason I like taking my dad to the range when I am home. He gets to see the other side of guns, especially with the cases he takes and the lawyers he supervises takes.

 

[EPS]

You can relax Portland I heard that they moved the anti Sharia law protest to Seattle this is not a anti Muslim protest it is anti Sharia protest the mayor of Seattle is willing to let them come here Because he's saying its free speech but the real reason is it takes HIS CRIMES OUT OF THE SPOT LIGHT

 

[greghaz]

Chuck Sparks? That would be him.

Yes. He is the kind of person who can and does responsibly handle the power we give prosecutors.

 

[EPS]

Too bad we don't have DA 's like him up in WA I don't know him but if three or four people on this site say he's good then I will take there word LOL depends on who they are are State DA here in Washington is a clown and his next step is Gov of WA everyone knows that's what he wants GOD HELP US