My opinion on Forest fires

[CoastRange57]

I have always wondered how there are so many starts. But then there are a lot of stupid people that do stupid things. And you have lighting starts. I have heard fires starts from mowing grass, limbing up trees, mowing a field, burning trash, squatters cooking fires , the list goes on and on.

A friend is up in the Gorge with two processors and a dozer, plus one low boy. The processors are making $ 800 per hour and the dozer making $ 750, The low boy makes $ 500 sitting there. He will be up there at least 2 more weeks. Working 12 hours a day.

As for the Chetco Fire, I have some pictures from a guy who flew a reconn flight on that the first day. Less than 20 acres at the time, he said a few drops from the Skycrane would have stopped that right there. But can't use the Skycrane in the wilderness.

 

[HB of CJ]

Political decisions.

 

[No_Regerts]

I think I heard someone else say the gov. did not fight the Chetco fire at first, that they let it burn. I heard the manager of fire fighting there state on the radio that this was not true, that because of where it was they fought it from the offset.

As to someone purposely setting the fires so that they can make money fighting them, show me the evidence, not supposition or allegations. If you have evidence, then why have you not gone to the state gov. with that evidence?

Having been a first responder myself for four years (USCG) I just do not like it when I hear such accusations.

Its just conjecture and he isn't referencing first responders, but the contractors.

 

[GUNARCHER]

there is a political reason for delaying the fire fight or using ineffective methods.
I can hear al Gore using the large fires as a result of increased man made warming.

 

[CountryGent]

Well maybe they are just betting on the clinton idiot voters who can't help but doing incredibly stupid things.
It's like betting on rain here.

No need to start any just wait for the half brains to go out and do their half brain antics

Indeed, Hanlon's Razor would seem to apply: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." There is an endless supply of stupid individuals out there. Alas, some of the morons set forest fires, pretty much every year. The suspected young people in this case seem to fit that description. The three bozos that started the fire in Washington by shooting propane tanks in the middle of July is another fine example.

Beyond that, I can't speak to the validity of the hypothesis. Unless there is an arrest and conviction, it is impossible to say with certitude at this point.

 

[Hybrid Slave]

I think I heard someone else say the gov. did not fight the Chetco fire at first, that they let it burn. I heard the manager of fire fighting there state on the radio that this was not true, that because of where it was they fought it from the offset.

As to someone purposely setting the fires so that they can make money fighting them, show me the evidence, not supposition or allegations. If you have evidence, then why have you not gone to the state gov. with that evidence?

Having been a first responder myself for four years (USCG) I just do not like it when I hear such accusations.

From my experience, most who make their livelihood off of other peoples' taxes ever take very well to being called out on anything, in any way shape or form. Don't get me wrong, I spent several years in the military; traded a promising career for a wife and family though... that, and I just decided that I no longer wanted to make a living off of peoples' taxes.

 

[DONOTBUGME]

The OR and WA governors want the fires to spread to kill what's left of the logging industry and to move the conservative mountain folk out of the hills. It easier to control the population in cities.

 

[11Charlie]

I have always wondered how there are so many starts. But then there are a lot of stupid people that do stupid things. And you have lighting starts. I have heard fires starts from mowing grass, limbing up trees, mowing a field, burning trash, squatters cooking fires , the list goes on and on.

A friend is up in the Gorge with two processors and a dozer, plus one low boy. The processors are making $ 800 per hour and the dozer making $ 750, The low boy makes $ 500 sitting there. He will be up there at least 2 more weeks. Working 12 hours a day.

As for the Chetco Fire, I have some pictures from a guy who flew a reconn flight on that the first day. Less than 20 acres at the time, he said a few drops from the Skycrane would have stopped that right there. But can't use the Skycrane in the wilderness.

View attachment 390151

Now that is a load of SH!t if you have the resources to end it quick why not do so

 

[HB of CJ]

Personal Rant .... Emotional ...

Wilderness rules. Maximum Stupid. Environmental Protection Act. Choosing a mongrel Spotted Owl as their masterpiece. The general wacko Green Movement. The new religion. Shutting down the logging industry. Singing Maypole songs. Earth Day.

Greed. Power. Control. Perhaps the Seven Deadly Sins for others. Follow the money trail. Follow the stupid international treaty laws. What we lack here on Planet Earth is reason and sanity. The Human Condition stripped raw for all of us to see. Wow! Yikes!

Beam Me Up Scotty! ... ...

Respectfully.

 

[CoastRange57]

From OSP today:

On August 29, 2017, an investigation began into four wildland fires that occurred along the Highway 97 between the area of Lava River Cave and Mile Post 180 south of La Pine, Oregon.

Three of the fires were contained at less than two acres and the fourth fire, which was later called the McKay Fire near La Pine, grew to approximately 1,219 acres. Through a collaborative law enforcement effort and information obtained from the public, a suspect was developed. The suspect was located by OSP Troopers on September 3, 2017 as he entered Oregon on Interstate 84 near Ontario driving a stolen 2016 Hyundai Sonata (blue in color).

Christopher Glen WILSON, age 37, of Salt Lake City, Utah, was arrested and booked into the Malheur County Jail for Unauthorized Use of a Vehicle. On September 8, 2017, Wilson was indicted by a Deschutes County Grand Jury for 3 counts of Arson in the First Degree and Reckless Endangerment. He will be facing arraignment in the near future in Deschutes County Circuit Court.

It is possible WILSON may be responsible for other fires in the northwest. OSP is seeking the public's assistance if they have any information on WILSON or saw the vehicle he was driving (distinct sticker in the back window) in any areas known to have wildland fires to call OSP at 503-375-3555

Detectives from the OSP Arson Unit were assisted by the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office, United States Forest Service, and other law enforcement agencies. More information will be released when it becomes available.





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[P7M13]

The OR and WA governors want the fires to spread to kill what's left of the logging industry and to move the conservative mountain folk out of the hills. It easier to control the population in cities.

Not kill, consolidate into the hands of the few. Up the regulations until the last hold-outs cannot afford to comply.
Sheep are easier to manage in a large herd.

Now that is a load of SH!t if you have the resources to end it quick why not do so

As a volunteer wilderness steward, it baffles the sheit out of me, the restrictions and rules.

 

[Hop Sing]

The OR and WA governors want the fires to spread to kill what's left of the logging industry and to move the conservative mountain folk out of the hills. It easier to control the population in cities.

Why would they want to kill the logging industry? Real question.

 

[CoastRange57]

Not kill, consolidate into the hands of the few. Up the regulations until the last hold-outs cannot afford to comply.

News flash here... the logging industry is already consolidated in the hands of a few companies. As soon as Weyerhauser finishes strip mining its holdings in Northwest Oregon it will sell the property cheap and be gone. They are cutting everything that is standing, and any dimensional logs are being sent over seas, and the rest of the pecker poles are being ground up for cheap uses.

Stimson is one of the few private companies that will hold on, they have immense property holdings,as does Hampton. They both buy from state sales when available, but the amount the state sells is tiny compared to what it used to be. Timber tax revenues are gone, the lib's want to have trees not public income. It is a basic resource extraction business, that is getting more costly to operate every day. My son in law owns a logging business, and I have encouraged him to look at the 20 year outlook for the business, not very good in this old mans opinion.

 

[CoastRange57]

Why would they want to kill the logging industry? Real question.

Well 30 years of Democratic control in the Statehouse and Legislature, have allowed the liberal environmentalists to effectively stop logging and any thing related to utilization of our natural resources. They have created this huge amount of regulations and requirements that the larger companies said the hell with and just shipped the logs overseas. This is just the state timber, federal sales have been gone a long time.

Of course the timber companies did put some of this on themselves when they did and continue to load ships with raw logs and ship them overseas versus adding value cutting the lumber here. Go over the Longview Bridge or Coos Bay bridge anytime in the last 30 years ??

 

[Hop Sing]

Thanks, CoastRange57,

 

[P7M13]

News flash here... the logging industry is already consolidated in the hands of a few companies. As soon as Weyerhauser finishes strip mining its holdings in Northwest Oregon it will sell the property cheap and be gone. They are cutting everything that is standing, and any dimensional logs are being sent over seas, and the rest of the pecker poles are being ground up for cheap uses.

Stimson is one of the few private companies that will hold on, they have immense property holdings,as does Hampton. They both buy from state sales when available, but the amount the state sells is tiny compared to what it used to be. Timber tax revenues are gone, the lib's want to have trees not public income. It is a basic resource extraction business, that is getting more costly to operate every day. My son in law owns a logging business, and I have encouraged him to look at the 20 year outlook for the business, not very good in this old mans opinion.

I knew there had been a large amount of consolidation already, I wasn't aware of how deep it was already.

 

[CoastRange57]

I knew there had been a large amount of consolidation already, I wasn't aware of how deep it was already.

There are more companies than that, but not by much.You get the idea. Stimson currently has mills in Clatskanie, and Gaston, roughly 100 miles apart. Hampton has one in Tillamook and Banks. This is the huge cost anymore is the distance from harvest site to the processing mills. When you have to drive 60 to 80 miles you have to haul azz to make money. I have ran a few loads for my son in law when he was short on drivers, but driving log truck is not my thing at all. I prefer to drive safely and reasonably close to the legal speed limit in trucks that can pass a safety inspection. There is a mill near Sheridan that does export processing I believe.

Stimson and Hampton both are cutting just as fast as they want to, with their sales dictated by inventory they have in the woods. I was told by someone who knows that most of those mills are looking for a million dollars in net profit each year to keep the owners happy since most are privately owned.

The amounts of harvestable timber has declined greatly in the last 20 years, and unless it is managed forest, there is a lot of crap timber out there, that is good for chips and not much else.

 

[passnthru]

Over here in Idaho forest fires are a standard event every summer here. It's big bunsiess fighting fires. If your high enough on the list of subcontractors, you get the biz. If you own a cat, or trucks, water trucks, loaders, etc , you get paid big money. I believe these fires are set on purpose. How often? I think 25-30% of the time. When your being paid $5,000 a day to push dirt around, you see dollar signs. I have family that's in this biz.

I used to think the same, but we get so much lightning here in the Bitter Roots no fire fighters around here have time or need to set any! We could use a lot more of them! It really sucks that the smoke from your Idaho fires comes here! Can rarely see the sky or mountains this summer from the smoke!

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I used to think the same, but we get so much lightning here in the Bitter Roots no fire fighters around here have time or need to set any! We could use a lot more of them! It really sucks that the smoke from your Idaho fires comes here! Can rarely see the sky or mountains this summer from the smoke!

Bitter root? Are you Montana?

 

[passnthru]

Bitter root? Are you Montana?

Dave
Yes, Hamilton

We fled the PNW!