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More earthquake fear mongering
- Thread Starter nwwoodsman
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While I don't dig fear mongering and hate the media spin.
I had wondered for years what the odd formations were off the Oregon, Washington and Northern California coast.
In a bout of intensive research on several topics I found that the Cascadia Subduction Zone is a legitimate Fault with fair predictability and overdue activity.
"Overdue" could be 1 week or 300 years however. But with the Pacific Rim being very active ... I wouldn't just scoff at substantial historical and scientific evidence.
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It is not "if" but "when". It might not be in our lifetime or it could happen two minutes after I post this message.
The important thing to remember is that there will be no advance notification. People impacted by Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Sandy had at least three days of warning. We will have zero warning for a major earthquake. Remember that when your gas tank is 1/4 full, or when you've been thinking about those things you really should do to be more self-sustaining. You should assume that you will have no access to food or fuel for at least 14 days.
Moreover, there won't be any time to "get outta Dodge" like many people did for Hurricane Katrina. You will have 100x as many people in say the greater Seattle area, and I wonder if as many as 80% of them will be out of food after five days. Then what? FEMA has already proven itself to be useless. People won't be polite when they are hungry.
Peter
The important thing to remember is that there will be no advance notification. People impacted by Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Sandy had at least three days of warning. We will have zero warning for a major earthquake. Remember that when your gas tank is 1/4 full, or when you've been thinking about those things you really should do to be more self-sustaining. You should assume that you will have no access to food or fuel for at least 14 days.
Moreover, there won't be any time to "get outta Dodge" like many people did for Hurricane Katrina. You will have 100x as many people in say the greater Seattle area, and I wonder if as many as 80% of them will be out of food after five days. Then what? FEMA has already proven itself to be useless. People won't be polite when they are hungry.
Peter
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Awesome thread and it clearly illustrates the American "catastrophe avoidance" industry. While I find the geologic and geographic forces of Oregon fascinating, I am skeptical of those who "strap-hang" onto them to place more control(s) over my life.
"I for one, do not believe it was Mrs. O Leary's cow who started the Chicago Fire".
Warning-Tangential Thread Shift-Not a "highjack"
No question that we have been in a relatively mild cycle of the earth's life, and no question whether or not something big with the earth can alter our way of life; like the Columbia River Basalt Group (CRBG). Six major events (routine events in earth language) where basalt from 400 miles below Yellowstone National Park flowed into Oregon; some of which made it all the way to the Oregon Coast.
Not only are the heavier oceanic plates being subducted under the lighter continental plates because of sea-floor spreading, Oregon is also being stretched apart. I looked into the North/South canyons in Southern Oregon and discovered that the Oregon coast is being pulled Northward, and Eastern Oregon is "hanging onto" its original volcanic island. Pointing a hand straight down and opening the fingers illustrates how Southern Oregon is being ripped apart.
Some of the Southeast to Northwest transform or strike-slip fault-lines run right under major metropolitan areas. People who are lucky-enough to have this information would also know to avoid building or buying a house in these areas.
Pacific Northwest Geologic Mapping and Urban Hazards
"I for one, do not believe it was Mrs. O Leary's cow who started the Chicago Fire".
Warning-Tangential Thread Shift-Not a "highjack"
No question that we have been in a relatively mild cycle of the earth's life, and no question whether or not something big with the earth can alter our way of life; like the Columbia River Basalt Group (CRBG). Six major events (routine events in earth language) where basalt from 400 miles below Yellowstone National Park flowed into Oregon; some of which made it all the way to the Oregon Coast.
Not only are the heavier oceanic plates being subducted under the lighter continental plates because of sea-floor spreading, Oregon is also being stretched apart. I looked into the North/South canyons in Southern Oregon and discovered that the Oregon coast is being pulled Northward, and Eastern Oregon is "hanging onto" its original volcanic island. Pointing a hand straight down and opening the fingers illustrates how Southern Oregon is being ripped apart.
Some of the Southeast to Northwest transform or strike-slip fault-lines run right under major metropolitan areas. People who are lucky-enough to have this information would also know to avoid building or buying a house in these areas.
Pacific Northwest Geologic Mapping and Urban Hazards
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I was a geology major at PSU. All four professors said the same thing - that we would 'most likely' suffer a horrific earthquake in this area in our lifetimes.
They also said such an event would re-spark such wonderful old friends as an erupting Mt St Helens - yippee. Then they showed interesting facts about the downtown area stretching all the way up to skyline. Faults galore.
City governments don't want to talk about such things; kind of like Cannon Beach really would rather not tell people about tsunami threats. (Drills show 50% would die - people go straight for their cars lol).
Burnside street was originally Burn-Slide, meaning a long mud slide they would use to slide trees down to the river. Most of downtown is built on soft mud at the core. Great action if/when a giant quake hits I am sure.
Prepping for a quake may be futile, but I always believe some prepping is better than nothing. Also, no one is coming to save me so I better pull myself up from the rubble if I can and fight to live. I prep for less (immediately) lethal scenarios like economic collapse.
Portland, if/when a major quake hits, is absolutely screwed. The casualties will be horrific. Just hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime.
There is very LITTLE fear mongering in the media about things like Earthquakes here. The media is far too busy convincing idiots that brown people 7450 miles away are trying to take our freedoms or that 'active shooters' are coming for you.
They also said such an event would re-spark such wonderful old friends as an erupting Mt St Helens - yippee. Then they showed interesting facts about the downtown area stretching all the way up to skyline. Faults galore.
City governments don't want to talk about such things; kind of like Cannon Beach really would rather not tell people about tsunami threats. (Drills show 50% would die - people go straight for their cars lol).
Burnside street was originally Burn-Slide, meaning a long mud slide they would use to slide trees down to the river. Most of downtown is built on soft mud at the core. Great action if/when a giant quake hits I am sure.
Prepping for a quake may be futile, but I always believe some prepping is better than nothing. Also, no one is coming to save me so I better pull myself up from the rubble if I can and fight to live. I prep for less (immediately) lethal scenarios like economic collapse.
Portland, if/when a major quake hits, is absolutely screwed. The casualties will be horrific. Just hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime.
There is very LITTLE fear mongering in the media about things like Earthquakes here. The media is far too busy convincing idiots that brown people 7450 miles away are trying to take our freedoms or that 'active shooters' are coming for you.
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Since it's fairly relative to this thread. Anyone know if being at a higher elevation lessens or increases the impact of a quake? While I'm sure that the distance over land that I am from where the actual quake originates is much more important I've always wondered how being 1000 feet above the city below me could help or hinder my own house's survival.
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Probably best answered by a structural engineer. I don't believe elevation helps.
Having your home not built on a flat lot is probably not great. The richie-riches in the SW PDX Hills for instance. Slip sliding away ..... If your house collapses straight down it is bad enough, but if it has a way to travel down a hill with gravity, well ... not great.
Not to cast the first stone though. The house I'm in was built by idiots. I am putting things back together all the time that fall apart, let alone if a quake hits. This place is toast. It will be a stack of rubble with me dead inside most likely if I cannot high tail it outside immediately. There will be no parking myself in a doorway, no grabbing the cat (sorry cat!).
Preps won't mean a whole lot with tons of wood and nails on top of me that is for sure.
There was a pretty good shaker in Lake Oswego in the 90s. I was outside in my underwear in 7 seconds flat. Funny! Awoke to the clang, clang, clang of my hanging closet doors and immediately knew what it was even though I've never felt an earthquake in my life.
They say don't run outside. Well screw that! If you live in something with more than one floor, or a cracker box, you had better head for a clearing and fast. Muscle memory style, and no stopping to smell the roses.
Having your home not built on a flat lot is probably not great. The richie-riches in the SW PDX Hills for instance. Slip sliding away ..... If your house collapses straight down it is bad enough, but if it has a way to travel down a hill with gravity, well ... not great.
Not to cast the first stone though. The house I'm in was built by idiots. I am putting things back together all the time that fall apart, let alone if a quake hits. This place is toast. It will be a stack of rubble with me dead inside most likely if I cannot high tail it outside immediately. There will be no parking myself in a doorway, no grabbing the cat (sorry cat!).
Preps won't mean a whole lot with tons of wood and nails on top of me that is for sure.
There was a pretty good shaker in Lake Oswego in the 90s. I was outside in my underwear in 7 seconds flat. Funny! Awoke to the clang, clang, clang of my hanging closet doors and immediately knew what it was even though I've never felt an earthquake in my life.
They say don't run outside. Well screw that! If you live in something with more than one floor, or a cracker box, you had better head for a clearing and fast. Muscle memory style, and no stopping to smell the roses.
I've tried to find USGS soil liquefication charts for the Willamette Valley but downtown Portland seems very bad. Maybe I'm missing them.
Instead of that, look at where the fault lines are located.
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Think giant mud hole, at an angle. Whee!!!! Here we go ....
I've worked in the Naito building under the Burnside bridge for many hours before. When I'm there I know I am dead meat in the slightest quake. Old town + any older downtown structures will be rubble.
Newer structures are of course built to move and sway so it will take a whopper to bring them down. Many contractors pay off inspectors in Portland and cut corners so that isn't even a safe bet though. Cheap steel, etc. Kind of like that City Center building in Vegas - someone forgot to pay off the right people to get a variance or a blind eye.
We worked in a new fancy building downtown where the contractors didn't install any guy wire or hangers attached to the ceiling structure for all the lighting fixtures and ballasts.
Literally all that weight is just sitting in the ceiling grid ready to shake out.
So all the people in the office will get rained on with 34 lb metal casings with razor sharp edges.
It came to the attention of the tenant who complained to the building owner, who asks the city/building inspectors and they said don't worry about it (re - the contractor is 'covered.')
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Tools to dig-pry yourself out inside your house.
Wrench to turn-off natural gas at meter.
Turn off water, at street, toilets, water heater.
Learn how to cut commercial power at house main disconnect.
Water in jugs, tarps to capture rain.
Chlorine Bleach (to purify, sterilize, sanitize)
Food: Beans, rice, spices, canned chili, canned stew.
Store in 5 gal plastic buckets. Bugs can't breathe carbon dioxide, dry ice, close lid after ice melts.
When will a .22 bullet be worth an apple, or a bucket of apples?
Wrench to turn-off natural gas at meter.
Turn off water, at street, toilets, water heater.
Learn how to cut commercial power at house main disconnect.
Water in jugs, tarps to capture rain.
Chlorine Bleach (to purify, sterilize, sanitize)
Food: Beans, rice, spices, canned chili, canned stew.
Store in 5 gal plastic buckets. Bugs can't breathe carbon dioxide, dry ice, close lid after ice melts.
When will a .22 bullet be worth an apple, or a bucket of apples?
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Who says you get to choose? The small "tornado" that came through McMinnville last week actually damaged my house. Went through our neighborhood after tearing up the storage bldg down the way. The roof is still there and the truck wasn't flipped over but it sure was a sight to see. Lost enough shingles to need a whole new roof.
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Coming from socal, I've ridden out a lot of "large" earthquakes (6.0+) and frankly, they are not as big a deal as people make them out to be. Any "single family ranch" style house is going to survive, unless there is severe liquifaction, even then the worst you will have to deal with is a cracked foundation.
The major problem with a cascadia event is going to be the tsunami that comes afterwards. Low laying areas will be inundated, and places with large buildings will have problems with liquefaction. This is part of the reason when considering the move to the PNW, I had zero interest in living in king county. I wanted to be closer to the mountains, somewhere with elevation, and somewhere that was closer to bedrock.
The major problem with a cascadia event is going to be the tsunami that comes afterwards. Low laying areas will be inundated, and places with large buildings will have problems with liquefaction. This is part of the reason when considering the move to the PNW, I had zero interest in living in king county. I wanted to be closer to the mountains, somewhere with elevation, and somewhere that was closer to bedrock.
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We're at around 700' in the coast range BUT work from Lincoln city to Manzanita every day right along the big pond. If a big one hits the coast, it's the wave that freaks me out. Lets just say a 7.5 cracks close to the Portland area, hwys are going to buckle, overpasses are going to collapse and pandemonium will ensue, count on it. Don't expect that big brother will come riding in and lift everything back up, ain't gonna happen for quite awhile in the outlying areas as the major metro will get the attention first. If it hits along the coast? ALL of the bridges will most likely be damaged north/south and east/west. Any gas lines folks? wiped out. Municipal water? that too. Power grids? Blink! There will be no routes in or out for guys in the white hats to come riding in on. I've been down here for a long time now and have seen what just the major storms do to the infrastructure and have seen vast sections of this area totally isolated for weeks. Prep? You bet.
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say what you want about CA, but they have some great building codes, rode out all the quakes in my bed with no more than a crack in the drywall. homes built in the 60's too.
Quakes don't bother me, really looking forward to a volcano though, can see Mt. Ranier from my front yard. Far enough away to only get ash fallout, I hope.
Quakes don't bother me, really looking forward to a volcano though, can see Mt. Ranier from my front yard. Far enough away to only get ash fallout, I hope.
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This is what I prep for. IMHO, much more likely than civil unrest or some other upheaval. We were without power for 6 days after the '95 (???) wind storm. That was a wake up call. An earthquake of the magnitude they are talking would be worse. Potentially power, natural gas, roads and bridges out of commission and in disarray for a lengthy period. May not ever happen, but hey, you carry a spare tire in your car, don't you? I've never had a flat tire either......but I wouldn't go on a trip without one......
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The Cascadia Fault Line: Locked, Loaded And Ready To Fire | The Daily Sheeple
Although it is brutal and terrifying there are worse ways to go in my opinion. Like rotting in an old folks home.
Although it is brutal and terrifying there are worse ways to go in my opinion. Like rotting in an old folks home.
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I have been exchanging emails with a friend in Vancouver, BC about being more prepared for an earthquake since he has two young children. I sent him a personal story and thought I would copy/paste here.
Peter
A quick story... In 2006 there was major windstorm here, and the Northeast corner of greater Seattle got hit hard. It is also where I live. Our power was out for three days, but we have a generator so no big deal. The night after the storm I drove into the town center - kind of like me living in rural Langley, and driving into the center of Langley. Pitch black. Nothing. No power, no street lights, no ATMs, no gas stations. It was like a B-grade disaster movie. The police commandeered the closest working gas station so the fuel would be saved for emergency vehicles. Most people were out for three days. Some were out for 10 days. This is during typical cold, wet weather in the Pacific Northwest. A home gets very cold in 24 hours with no heat... A few days into it we drove a bit and went out for dinner, and there were obviously many cold people using restaurants for both food and heat. I will never forget the look in some of their eyes. It was like they were going to pop if it went on much longer, and start stealing what might be needed for their personal survival. I don't know how to explain it. I could just see it in their eyes. It was creepy. Why am I telling you this? You should assume there will not be food or supplies readily available after an earthquake. You should also assume that people are not going to play nice after about three days as their food, water, or other supplies run out.
Peter
A quick story... In 2006 there was major windstorm here, and the Northeast corner of greater Seattle got hit hard. It is also where I live. Our power was out for three days, but we have a generator so no big deal. The night after the storm I drove into the town center - kind of like me living in rural Langley, and driving into the center of Langley. Pitch black. Nothing. No power, no street lights, no ATMs, no gas stations. It was like a B-grade disaster movie. The police commandeered the closest working gas station so the fuel would be saved for emergency vehicles. Most people were out for three days. Some were out for 10 days. This is during typical cold, wet weather in the Pacific Northwest. A home gets very cold in 24 hours with no heat... A few days into it we drove a bit and went out for dinner, and there were obviously many cold people using restaurants for both food and heat. I will never forget the look in some of their eyes. It was like they were going to pop if it went on much longer, and start stealing what might be needed for their personal survival. I don't know how to explain it. I could just see it in their eyes. It was creepy. Why am I telling you this? You should assume there will not be food or supplies readily available after an earthquake. You should also assume that people are not going to play nice after about three days as their food, water, or other supplies run out.
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Agreed, the rules of a civilized society will go quickly out the window.
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