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Model 94 Winchester -No Drill- Scope mount

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by roknHS, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    Dyjital likes this.
  2. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    Ordered one on Monday, received it on Wednesday............fast shipping........
    Great quality. Good instructions. Simple design. Easy to install.
    I've got a FastFire III on the way.
    This is going to be a great set-up.
     
  3. TwinStick

    TwinStick In the wind Active Member

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    Let us know how well it holds zero. I haven't heard great things about the other type of no drill side-mount scope mounts for the '94.
     
  4. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    I'll give an update when I get the Burris Fast Fire sighted in. The design of this one makes me think it will be a solid performer. There is a video link on the web site to a review from a Maine gunsmith if anyone is interested in watching the rail in action. I had my gunsmith check it out this morning.............he thought it looked very good and solid. These are really meant for Holo's and Red Dots......full size scout scopes can fit also.
     
  5. Rick4070

    Rick4070 Central Oregon coast Active Member

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    It looks like a pretty good system, I wonder why it took so long for someone to invent it?
    And, you can always replace all the original parts in the future if desired, no extra drilled holes, etc.
    Thanks for posting it.
    The rifle he installs it on is similar to mine, a saddle ring carbine.
    I haven't looked at, or shot mine for a while, it lives in the safe, so, I pulled it out last night, as I kind of forgot exactly when it was made, and the inventor has a list of serial numbers for the '94 and when they were made.
    I knew mine was pre-WWII, but I was kind of surprised to find out that mine was made in 1920...
    My father gave $40 for it and a couple of boxes of ammo to a guy that needed beer money in a bubblegum when I was a kid, it was my first deer rifle, and accounted for a couple of nice bucks around the time I was 12 or so.
    Before I got it, someone broke off the hammer spur, and had a gunsmith weld it back on, not a bad job, the sights had been replaced with a set of Marble sights, and someone had refinished the stock.
    Almost all the bluing is gone from the receiver also.
    All in all, a perfect first deer rifle!!!
    Thanks for posting, so I could relive some good memories!!!
    Let us know how the system works out.
     
  6. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    I received the Fastfire III today and have it mounted. This 94 is a 1967. Hope to get it going tomorrow if the weather is decent. I have a 1946 model 94 that I may consider putting this system on if I like the results on the post 64 model.
    I think the inventor figured, with all the new sight technology available today, there are a few million 94's out there in the back of closets, under beds and in safes that could get a new lease on life and give the owner a reason to get it out and use it. I think he's right. The 1946 Winchester 94 was my first hunting rifle and has elk, deer, bear and couple of unlucky bunny rabbits to its credit. I'll be tickled to give it some more work with a new sight.
     
  7. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    Here's a shot of the Fastfire III on the rail. Nice compact set-up.............

    IMG_0390.jpg
     
  8. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    Got a chance to give the 94 a try today. I don't have enough down adjustment in the sight to get the gun to zero at 25 yds. I'm 6" high at 25 and probably 18" high at 100 yards. I think the Fastfire 3 sets too high on the rail. This is my first red dot experience so, I'm guessing here. I e-mailed Mr. Pearson for some guidance on what I need to do. I think the rear sight insert may need to be thinner to bring the rail down maybe 20 or 30 thousands. That's just my guess. The rail seems rock solid...........the gun shoots nice groups..........just too high.
    I was shooting 150 grain factory loads.
     
  9. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    I received an e-mail this a.m. Mr. Pearson told me to put a 10 thousands shim under the rail on top of the dovetail block............exactly the opposite of what I was thinking. He has run into a couple of sights with this problem and is already making changes to fix the issue.
    I'll have to do some pondering on why raising the sight will lower the lower the bullet path........with no front sight reference, only a rear holo, it seemed to me the opposite would be true. I guess that's why I'm a rancher and not an engineer.
     
  10. elsie

    elsie Way over there on the left Well-Known Member

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    The reason this works is because of the way it diverges the line of sight versus the bore line. You 'tilt' the line of sight up is the same as tilting the bore line down. Imagine a protractor or drawing compass; if the upper line stays pointing at the 'bullseye', the increased angle pushed the lower line (point of impact) down.


    elsie
     
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  11. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    Good explanation elsie.........I've got it now. The protractor example made the light bulb come on........................makes sense.
     
  12. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

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    Well, I've learned alot about red dot sights now. Got the gun zeroed in finally. You don't need any shims for the Fastfire sight as it turns out. Shot a box of ammo and the rail is rock solid. The gun shoots sub 2" groups at 100 yds.
    I will repeat, the rail is rock solid. The problem with getting the Fastfire on target was my inexperience. I tried to use a laserlyte bore sighter to get it lined up. Don't do that. It doesn't work. I won't go into detail. For this little Holo sight, bring the target up to 25 yds, use a big target like a big piece of paper or cardboard to make sure you can get the first shot on the paper. I was using a lead sled. Fire a shot into the paper......don't move the gun or sled........zero the sight on the hole in the paper. Fire your second shot at the hole from your first shot without moving the gun or the sled significantly. Your second shot should be right on top of or very close to the first shot hole.
    Now move your target to 100 yds and you are good to go for final adjustment.
    I was about 3" high at 100 yds with 150 grain factory loads.

    I think the problem with using the laserlyte to bore sight was a couple of things...........The sight is about 3/4 inches above the bore instead of the standard 1 1/2" with a regular scope and the Fastfire is about 2" long instead of the length of a regular scope. The geometry was just all wrong for the laserlyte bore sighter.

    So, after a couple of shooting sessions and a lot of help from a guy that knows a lot more than I do......the Model 94 is ready for a new life with a Fastfire 3 holo sight. It is a really nice combo.

    The Pearson rail works great and stays tight. No problems.
     
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  13. Winny94

    Winny94 Midwest New Member

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    Hello all. I'm debating between finding a vintage Leupold scout mount (dovetail and barrel band mount) or this no drill mount... Anyone have experience with the leupold mount vs this mount?

    Thanks!