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minnesota man shot burglars more times than needed.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by parallax, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. parallax

    parallax eugene, or-gun Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  2. keystir

    keystir Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    There's got to be more to this. This plays out like a bad horror film: 2 mischievous kids break into a home and find a sadistic killer waiting for them!

    "A good clean finishing shot under her chin and up into the cranium" Nobody does that or says that except in the movies.
     
    fd15k and (deleted member) like this.
  3. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    this is some crazy story. he screwed up in so many ways.
     
  4. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    It also makes it sound like he executed one after they laughed when his gun jammed.

    Also doesn't sound like he was in any hurry to report it to the police.
     
  5. Flyingswords

    Flyingswords Texas Active Member

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    Theyd still be alive if they hadnt made a half assed decision to break into the guys home psycho or not.
     
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  6. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    The guys obviously has some mental issues. He probably shouldn't have had a gun in the first place.
     
  7. SonicBlue03

    SonicBlue03 Snohomish Well-Known Member

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    Murder Two will be an easy sell to a jury.
     
  8. oneharmonic

    oneharmonic Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    I don't feel sorry for either party.

    The homeowner clearly made some missteps. He should have fired center mass until his magazine was empty. He should have reported the incident right away. He SHOULDN'T have spoken to the police before consulting a lawyer. He's going to get prison time, that much is clear.

    The two delinquents who decided to commit trespass and robbery won't be making that mistake ever again.
     
  9. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    Killing the girl is first degree murder.
     
  10. SonicBlue03

    SonicBlue03 Snohomish Well-Known Member

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    Agree, but the prosecution will want the easy conviction and Two will be a much easier sell than One.

    Dementia, psychosis, PTSD, whatever - prison is the appropriate end-result for the homeowner.
     
  11. mrblond

    mrblond Salem OR Well-Known Member

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    anyone notice the part about the mini 14 jamming? note to self. don't buy a mini 14.
     
  12. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I wrote about this earlier Tuesday and will add a link to this thread because it's a good part of the debate about this.
    One of my pas is an attorney backk in Minnesota and used to be an assistant prosecutor in Minneapolis. He and I exchanged e-mail about this column and I updated with his input.


    They have a rather interesting law back there about defense of domicile..

    Minnesota case shows difference between self-defense and self-destruction


    Minnesota case shows difference between self-defense and self-destruction - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com


    Anyway, as you'll read (if you're interested) I go along with the notion this guy Smith screwed the pooch on any self-defense argument, and he went way beyond what state law back there allows for defense of one's home or residence.
     
  13. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    Jup, no matter whether he was a "crazy foammouthed rabid killer who slaughtered two mischievous teens" or just a "law-abiding citizen defending his home against burglars", he talked to the police and that's where you need expert support in the shape of a good lawyer. Police are trained to extract incriminating statements and even if you can withstand one, they'll tag-team you until you say something incriminating. Either the truth or just a mix up under stress and shock. The police are not there for you, they are there to do their job. Which may or may not be helpful to you. I encourage law enforcement to uncover everything in investigations, but like any human, taking the shortcut to get home by dinnertime with a success can push boundaries. A lawyer is trained to correct these things.

    I think each of us should have a membership of armed citizens legal defense network. They educate and if SHTF in your personal situation (meaning: you have had to use your firearm defensively), they assist with legal support. Many of us don't have a few thousand dollars available to fund the defense lawyer initially and initially is where it's needed most.

    Whether this guy was just defending himself or happy to shoot doesn't matter, he should have been silent until legal representation is present. Many people want to be helpful and LE count on this. But being helpful has different perspectives and the police only look to solve cases quickly. Having you blurt out everything what happened is a nice testimony that'll assist in your conviction, wrongful or not.
     
  14. Phather

    Phather South SnoCo Active Member

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    This just doesn't add up. Why would burglar #2 even stay inside the house after hearing rifle fire? Why did he drag the body off after shooting burglar #1? He just happened to have a tarp laying around at the ready? If it takes you over a day to report such an incident, you are already extremely suspicious in the eyes of just about everyone in the world. The media likes to spin firearms related stories to make the gun owner seem like a fringe lunatic, but I doubt they had to do any doctoring to this guy's story.
     
  15. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Uhhh, it's a rather odd tale, alright. That's why it intrigued me enough to write about it. Your alarm bells seem to be properly tuned.
     
  16. PX4WA

    PX4WA Tacoma, WA Active Member

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    sounds more like he had enough and planned an ambush...
     
  17. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    No it isn't. I'll let the lawyers chime in, but as I understand it, first degree murder is premeditaded. I doubt they will get 2nd degree if he has a good lawyer.
     
  18. jp1985

    jp1985 Linn County, Oregon Active Member

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    WOW... that guy is a psycho. He even looks like one is his mug shot.
    As Kifer gasped for air, Smith dragged her body next to Brady's, according to the complaint, and placed a handgun under her chin and fired what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot" that went "under her chin up into the cranium."

    That's just creepy and i agree it does sound like he set up an ambush. And he just happened to have a tarp near by, and even moved the bodies around while they where dying! and shot her again for laughing at him.
    It does indeed sound like a horror movie.
     
  19. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well, my pal the attorney, quoted in my column (above) tells me that in Minnesota, only a grand jury can hand down an indictment for Murder 1. That's why he's charged right now with Murder 2...just to keep him on ice.

    From what has been described, it is possible the authorities believe he was in waiting down in the basement for "somebody" to break in so he could off them. He had been burglarized before, allegedly to the tune of about $10K. I do not know the particulars on that just yet.

    But pressing a muzzle under somebody's chin and capping one off "as a good finishing shot" can hardly be described as a spontaneous or unintentional act.

    He'd have to have OJ's dream team to get him out of this one, methinks.
     
    Uberdillo and (deleted member) like this.
  20. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Interesting observation. But of course as a Tacoma homey, it's been my opinion that Tacomans make good observations frequently. They just elect the wrong people to Congress and the governor' mansion :)