measure 66-67 pass in Oregon

[mudnducs]

The link I posted was the basis for the admited generality I described. The conservative attributes you listed are all traditional American values or institutions, and are held valuable by conservatives, or a perceived value as I put it. Perception is an important distinction, for most of us it defines the limits of our reality, and progressives and conservatives have different perceptions that lead to different realities.

“Perception defines the limit of our realities”? Please.
You’re kidding right? Your argument here…simmering out the wordiness…is that the difference between radical libs and conservatives is that……….they are different?

I was contrasting that with the factless emotional yap of the current far right media that is so often echoed in here, and saying that isn't conservative either, as it supports Republicans.

…and replacing it with what…this fact less emotional yap? <G>
Get real. There is no far right media. The main stream media is hugely lopsided, no..it’s laughingly lopsided to the left. What’s apparently bugging you is that conservatism is rising…it has found a voice in talk radio and that invention of another glorious lib…the internet.
There is no far right media. There is only conservative media and to progressives…it appears far right. In 1930 these same views would have been held by all Americans. That didn’t change by a “far right” controlled media, bub.

…
Where you see us creeping toward socialism I see us running full speed ahead toward another future, one where corporate power will become a tyranny and the rights of the individual will be few. I can make good arguments for his using the flow of wealth, non biased stats, and facts tying it to money = power = votes, and can prove these equates too. The recent supreme court decision allowing corporations to play directly at politics, is a good indication of things to come. Neither of us wants to be enslaved either by money or by government power, but there is more than one dragon out there to get us, and if you only see one the other has a great advantage.

You can not make good arguments that the Constitution should be ignored…and replacing a corporate culture that you seem to so fear with an inescapable Federal centralized authority is EXACTLY what the Founding Fathers stand against across the centuries.

Make no mistake…an argument for “running full speed ahead toward another future” is anathema to American underpinnings. It is almost by definition unConstitutional!
It’s that senseless rush toward some perfect world order created by men….a progreeeesive world where men are kiiindly enslaved. It is the reason I will stand and fight anyone who proposes that.
Progs were known hundreds of years ago. Our forefathers studied history and well understood the proclivities of men who desire power…that hasn’t changed a single bit.


.

 

[Stomper]

Mr thug rides again, yeee haaaaa!

I'm not a thug... I'm a goon.

Well as suspected. My friends in the 60-100k income bracket get to pay an extra $1k in taxes to the state this year. So much for not affecting people under $125k. I really do despise retroactive taxes.....

Hey, hey, hey!!! Please elaborate on this "extra tax" of which you speaketh! I'm about to wade through all my receipts 'n stuff and get my "papers in order" for for my annual "tribute" to "the man"! Are these friends single, married with kids, what?

 

[Buddhalux]

1 single, 2 married and all 3 will be paying the state between $800 and $1100 when last year they received a small return. Of course our pay hasn't changed, just our taxation.

 

[Stomper]

1 single, 2 married and all 3 will be paying the state between $800 and $1100 when last year they received a small return. Of course our pay hasn't changed, just our taxation.

Hmmm... looks like it could be a REAL interesting tax-year for me, I've always wound up paying $100-$300 to the state, but used my Federal refund to pay that and maybe have enough for a burger or a Starbucks afterwards... I hate thievin' progressives.

 

[Buddhalux]

You and me both!!!

They're almost as bad as sheeple.....

 

[mudnducs]

Hmmm... looks like it could be a REAL interesting tax-year for me, I've always wound up paying $100-$300 to the state, but used my Federal refund to pay that and maybe have enough for a burger or a Starbucks afterwards... I hate thievin' progressives.

Yes.

 

[bugeye]

“Perception defines the limit of our realities”? Please.
You’re kidding right? Your argument here…simmering out the wordiness…is that the difference between radical libs and conservatives is that……….they are different?





…and replacing it with what…this fact less emotional yap? <G>
Get real. There is no far right media. The main stream media is hugely lopsided, no..it’s laughingly lopsided to the left. What’s apparently bugging you is that conservatism is rising…it has found a voice in talk radio and that invention of another glorious lib…the internet.
There is no far right media. There is only conservative media and to progressives…it appears far right. In 1930 these same views would have been held by all Americans. That didn’t change by a “far right” controlled media, bub.






You can not make good arguments that the Constitution should be ignored…and replacing a corporate culture that you seem to so fear with an inescapable Federal centralized authority is EXACTLY what the Founding Fathers stand against across the centuries.

Make no mistake…an argument for “running full speed ahead toward another future” is anathema to American underpinnings. It is almost by definition unConstitutional!
It’s that senseless rush toward some perfect world order created by men….a progreeeesive world where men are kiiindly enslaved. It is the reason I will stand and fight anyone who proposes that.
Progs were known hundreds of years ago. Our forefathers studied history and well understood the proclivities of men who desire power…that hasn’t changed a single bit.


.

What would you say does define the limits of our reality? I've said it is the lack of a common reality that makes the public impotent. A major force in creating an edgy, not fact based, reality are the Becks and the Limbaughs.

You have a single view of our founders, as I've said before our founders were all over the place, and most of them were not only progressives, they were radical revolutionaries. The constituion is 12 pages long, what gives it teeth is over ten million laws (from neighborhood to federal) that are held to be supporting it, and defining its practical limits. Wrapping youself in 12 pages yelling this is all we need, describing the founders as a mono voiced conservative group, and calling the Moderate Republican acting Obama admin socialist is way outside the bounds of a common reality.

I'm sure your point of view is growing, but there is nothing conservative in any set of beliefs that is not based on real facts. Movements based on BS and supported by BS, are more dangerous than any based on fact, as facts define limits, but BS has no limit. The conservative ideal started as a response to mob rule during the French Revolution. Behind that reign of terror was a single view of victimization, the same sort of hurt emotionalism you get from a Beckian longing for an imagined America that never existed at all, except between their ears.

 

[komodo_dragon]

Oh please, bugeye. For every Beck or Hannity, or Limbaugh, there are at least two or three Ed Shultzs, Rachel Maddows, Keith Olbermanns, Dan Rathers or Chris Matthews'. How many conservative pundits have you ever heard talk about a candidate making their leg tingle, or forgetting that the president is black, or the memos may be fake but the content is accurate, or...


There are more liberals in the media than conservatives.

 

[mudnducs]

What would you say does define the limits of our reality? I've said it is the lack of a common reality that makes the public impotent. A major force in creating an edgy, not fact based, reality are the Becks and the Limbaughs.

See...this is bologna. Edgy? Beck and Limbaugh…edgy? Wow, good one!
The Becks and the Limbaugh’s rely specifically on our Founding documents and principles...that's what drives them.

You have a single view of our founders, as I've said before our founders were all over the place, and most of them were not only progressives, they were radical revolutionaries. The constituion is 12 pages long, what gives it teeth is over ten million laws (from neighborhood to federal) that are held to be supporting it, and defining its practical limits. Wrapping youself in 12 pages yelling this is all we need, describing the founders as a mono voiced conservative group, and calling the Moderate Republican acting Obama admin socialist is way outside the bounds of a common reality.

I do have a single view of our Founding Fathers…I’m very very happy aboput that.
It is a collective view of their work…it is based on all of their output and the study of their influences. We’d be bitter fools to discount what they gave us…the most successful society in the history of the planet.

What gives the Constitution teeth is 10 million laws? Is this one of your facts?
Tell me you’re not serious.

The Constitution was written by men who knew…who KNEW, that minimalist government required educated men who ruled themselves first….who had a common understanding of what self rule required of them.
It is outrageous to hold that we can not govern ourselves unless we’re provided more rules! OUTRAGEOUS. You clearly don’t understand what our Founders gave us. Progs are the enemy of free men. Like spiders rolling it's prey in a web one strand and one law at a time.

I was not sure until you alluded that Obama…a stinking socialist who has overseen a 400% increase in government spending in little more than 1 year….a stinking socialist who has taken over entire sectors of a private economy to fall under control of an ever expanding strong central authority (facts)…was a moderate Republican. You’d be hilarious if you weren't dead serious. But then again…you wanted facts right?

I'm sure your point of view is growing, but there is nothing conservative in any set of beliefs that is not based on real facts. Movements based on BS and supported by BS, are more dangerous than any based on fact, as facts define limits, but BS has no limit. The conservative ideal started as a response to mob rule during the French Revolution. Behind that reign of terror was a single view of victimization, the same sort of hurt emotionalism you get from a Beckian longing for an imagined America that never existed at all, except between their ears.

You keep talking about real facts as if you’re actually presenting them…you’ve presented nothing but your opinion yet.
I have no further doubt where you stand.

Facts? Pffft.


BTW: I’ll take the radical revolutionaries from 1776 over the radical progs of today…..aaaanytime.
They didn’t run headlong toward bigger government, stronger central authority, they didn’t “run full speed ahead toward another future” …in short, your allusion to a comparison with them is laughable….telling, but laughable.

 

[bugeye]

Oh please, bugeye. For every Beck or Hannity, or Limbaugh, there are at least two or three Ed Shultzs, Rachel Maddows, Keith Olbermanns, Dan Rathers or Chris Matthews'. How many conservative pundits have you ever heard talk about a candidate making their leg tingle, or forgetting that the president is black, or the memos may be fake but the content is accurate, or...


There are more liberals in the media than conservatives.

Good point, and you listed some leftie pundits. Of all the leftie pundits the one most like the righties is Randy Rhodes, who really is selling a counter delusion. Dan Rather had some fake memos and did a story that was false, these memos actually being provided by a rightie that wanted to entrap, but CBS corrected it and took responsibility for dispensing BS. When was the last time you heard a rightie pundit or their media outlets admit to lies and taking responsibility for it?

For example,
During the last presidential elections primary season I ended up hearing some of Savage's Program while I was waiting for a Blazer game, and he said that John MaCain was responsible for nearly blowing up an aircraft carrier by shooting a missle from his plane while it wqas on deck during the Viet Nam war. This is an amazing lie, MaCain was lucky to survive when a missle from another plane was accidently shot off, while he was in his plane waiting on deck to take off! Video of this incident is used by the Navy to help teach sailors how to deal with emergency fires on deck. Did Mr. Savage ever even acknowledge that he told a slanderous lie about a war hero? Heck no.

Now, find me a parallel to that deception pulled by the mainstream?
The left will only stand so much BS, other than the far edge we really are fact based, open minded, deciders and we resent being lied to.
This is why we can't figure out the righties, they seem to delight in being lied to, and this is why we can have no common reality.

Without a common reality there is only fear between us and the public is made impotent. I can't help but think that this is really the mission of Beck, Limbaugh, et al, and I can't help thinking that this benefits the most wealthy and powerful interests in our system, who just happen to be the same people that pay them pretty well.

Brainwashing works folks, they don't spend billions on advertising for nothing, and good advertising is all about lies, and so is your favorite media.

And don't believe me, you're smart, you have the net, go see for yourselves.

 

[komodo_dragon]

Good point, and you listed some leftie pundits. Of all the leftie pundits the one most like the righties is Randy Rhodes, who really is selling a counter delusion. Dan Rather had some fake memos and did a story that was false, these memos actually being provided by a rightie that wanted to entrap, but CBS corrected it and took responsibility for dispensing BS. When was the last time you heard a rightie pundit or their media outlets admit to lies and taking responsibility for it?

For example,
During the last presidential elections primary season I ended up hearing some of Savage's Program while I was waiting for a Blazer game, and he said that John MaCain was responsible for nearly blowing up an aircraft carrier by shooting a missle from his plane while it wqas on deck during the Viet Nam war. This is an amazing lie, MaCain was lucky to survive when a missle from another plane was accidently shot off, while he was in his plane waiting on deck to take off! Video of this incident is used by the Navy to help teach sailors how to deal with emergency fires on deck. Did Mr. Savage ever even acknowledge that he told a slanderous lie about a war hero? Heck no.

Now, find me a parallel to that deception pulled by the mainstream?
The left will only stand so much BS, other than the far edge we really are fact based, open minded, deciders and we resent being lied to.
This is why we can't figure out the righties, they seem to delight in being lied to, and this is why we can have no common reality.

Without a common reality there is only fear between us and the public is made impotent. I can't help but think that this is really the mission of Beck, Limbaugh, et al, and I can't help thinking that this benefits the most wealthy and powerful interests in our system, who just happen to be the same people that pay them pretty well.

Brainwashing works folks, they don't spend billions on advertising for nothing, and good advertising is all about lies, and so is your favorite media.

And don't believe me, you're smart, you have the net, go see for yourselves.

If you think that the only one that compares to Beck et al, is Randy Rhodes, you are, quite simply, delusional. Randy Rhodes openly advocated for the assassination of President Bush. Show me where Beck et al have done that. She is way worse than anything on the right that you have mentioned.


As to your claim that CBS admitted to the lies by Rather, show me that statement. Otherwise, all you have is a network that had to fire him in order to stave off further legal action and bad PR.

Do you also agree with

"...Olbermann’s claim he does not go after public figure’s children, but named [Steve] Doocy’s own son "Worst Person in the World."

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/justin-mccarthy/2008/06/04/steve-doocy-calls-out-keith-olbermanns-lies

When did Olbermann or MSNBC retract that lie and take responsibility for it?
When Did Olbermann get fired?

And, do you also agree with this lie from Matthews?

Chris Matthews on Hardball today:

Remember the poll last week where a majority of Republicans said either 'No' or 'Not sure' when asked if President Obama was born in the US?

Well, here's a blast from the past, courtesy of Real Clear Politics. Back in 2007, two years ago, Rasmussen polled voters with a similar out-of-left-field question, asking whether they believed that then-President Bush, George W. Bush, had gotten the inside word that the World Trade towers and the Pentagon were about to be hit on September 11, 2001. We're talking hard intel as to what was coming that day -- how the hijackers were going to grab those planes and fly them into buildings.

Well, how many Democrats said either 'Yes, Bush knew' or that they weren't sure whether he knew about that? Not sure whether the president deliberately sat back while America's cities were attacked and thousands were killed? Well, think about it. Sixty-one percent, a majority. Evidence that both parties hold the darkest of suspicions about the other party and it's leaders.

No. This is not true. Chris Matthews is lying to you.

The Rasmussen poll Matthews refers to didn't ask anything like what Matthews described. Nothing. Like. It.

The poll asked "Did Bush know about the 9/11 attacks in advance?" That's it. Many of those who answered either "yes" or "don't know" were likely doing so in reference to the presidential daily briefing Bush received warning him that al Qaeda was "determined" to attack the US. Even conservative columnist Jonah Goldberg acknowledged at the time that "Many Democrats are probably merely saying that Bush is incompetent or that he failed to connect the dots."
<broken link removed>

When did Matthews or MSNBC retract that lie and take responsibility for it?
When did Matthews get fired?


In reference to your claim that the left is "fact based, open minded, deciders and we resent being lied to.", do you believe in AGW? I can't begin to count how many liberals believe in the AGW lie that is being exposed continually.


So much for that claim of yours.


Bottom line is that for you to make any statements about the conservatives enjoying being lied to while claiming that liberals are "fact based, open minded, deciders" is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy.


Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

 

[bugeye]

See...this is bologna. Edgy? Beck and Limbaugh...edgy? Wow, good one!
The Becks and the Limbaugh's rely specifically on our Founding documents and principles...that's what drives them."





I do have a single view of our Founding Fathers...I'm very very happy aboput that.
It is a collective view of their work...it is based on all of their output and the study of their influences. We'd be bitter fools to discount what they gave us...the most successful society in the history of the planet.

What gives the Constitution teeth is 10 million laws? Is this one of your facts?
Tell me you're not serious.

The Constitution was written by men who knew...who KNEW, that minimalist government required educated men who ruled themselves first....who had a common understanding of what self rule required of them.
It is outrageous to hold that we can not govern ourselves unless we're provided more rules! OUTRAGEOUS. You clearly don't understand what our Founders gave us. Progs are the enemy of free men. Like spiders rolling it's prey in a web one strand and one law at a time.

I was not sure until you alluded that Obama...a stinking socialist who has overseen a 400&#37; increase in government spending in little more than 1 year....a stinking socialist who has taken over entire sectors of a private economy to fall under control of an ever expanding strong central authority (facts)...was a moderate Republican. You'd be hilarious if you weren't dead serious. But then again...you wanted facts right?






You keep talking about real facts as if you're actually presenting them...you've presented nothing but your opinion yet.
I have no further doubt where you stand.

Facts? Pffft.


BTW: I'll take the radical revolutionaries from 1776 over the radical progs of today.....aaaanytime.
They didn't run headlong toward bigger government, stronger central authority, they didn't "run full speed ahead toward another future" ...in short, your allusion to a comparison with them is laughable....telling, but laughable.

You're very sure your right, and preach your politics like it is religion.

I'm glad you're happy about your single view of the founders, maybe you would also be happy with a more realistic and accurate view of them that could be gained via just a small amout of effort on your part. I think in this case a study of the arguments and compromises that took place will increase, and not decrease, your appreciation of just what an incredible group of people they were.

The constituiton enforces nothing, the laws govern acceptable behavior. The laws are held to be constitutional or not. I hate to tell you this but that is how the system works! How do you think it works?

The term progressive has been hijacked by the right, Progressive are moderates that came from an alliance between liberals and conservatives who came togehter to protect the rights of individuals against the interests of wealth and power. You are emotionally expressing a comic book delusion you have about progressives. Heck turn to the front page of that rant and see if it says 'Marvel' on it. Actually, I suspect Stan Lee (who I have admired from the time I was 10) would have written something more complex and subtle than that. Hey, SpiderProg and new hero or villian, way cool.

Obama's first budget started on September of 2009, so you have a lot of Bush in your budget figures. Bush's last term was one of well over 1 trillion in debt, after running close to continous 500 billion deficts in the other years. I guess that makes him a socialist too?

The gov took over some private outfits to keep them alive, and not for some melodramatic (cue the organ) socialistic takeover.
Is that all you got?

As to being in essence a Moderate Republican, Obama has not sought to take away from private enterprise anything at all. Lets do a specific, the first parties brought into the health care reform plan were the insurance companies, drug comapnies, and the providers, and he made some deals with them that assured them that they would not be put out of business, or overregulated by the gov. That is not socialism, a socialist would have told the insurance companies to go find another way to make money because the gov is going to provide single payer insurance, period. Some socialist, he isn't even willing to have the gov take over an adminstrative function even though it would save over 10% of the cost of providing health care in our system (insurance company overhead is about 24% and the fed can do the same job for less than 10% based on the costs of medicare and medicade).

Seems like a classic case of strong opinons backed by very weak facts.

 

[mudnducs]

Hold this thought.

Here's a partial reply but I gotta run to work. I'll respond more fully later.



You're very sure your right, and preach your politics like it is religion.


I am sure. I have history on my side.


I'm glad you're happy about your single view of the founders, maybe you would also be happy with a more realistic and accurate view of them that could be gained via just a small amout of effort on your part. I think in this case a study of the arguments and compromises that took place will increase, and not decrease, your appreciation of just what an incredible group of people they were.

You’re a slimy little fella aren’t ya? I’m reasonably aware of the compromises that had to take place. I'm aware the influences the ancient Greeks had on the Founders. I’m aware of the reasons behind the necessity for the publishing the Federalist papers. I know why the Founding Fathers insisted on a Republic and not a democracy.
How about you?

The constituiton enforces nothing, the laws govern acceptable behavior. The laws are held to be constitutional or not. I hate to tell you this but that is how the system works! How do you think it works?

The Constitution is the boundary. It is the ultimate law of man in our nation. It insists that all mans laws stay within it’s restriction. You see it as a nuisance to your views…obstructionist. I see it as a limit to what you and yours may try to impose on me and mine. I would love it if progs dearly held our views on constitutional limits…they do not. Instead they “run full speed ahead toward another future”...irrespective of those boundaries.



to be continued.

 

[Stomper]

Mudnducs for Governor of Oregon in 20011!!!!

:rockstar: :woot: :rockstar: :woot: :rockstar: :woot: :rockstar: :woot:

 

[bugeye]

Hold this thought.

Here's a partial reply but I gotta run to work. I'll respond more fully later.



You're very sure your right, and preach your politics like it is religion.


I am sure. I have history on my side.


I'm glad you're happy about your single view of the founders, maybe you would also be happy with a more realistic and accurate view of them that could be gained via just a small amout of effort on your part. I think in this case a study of the arguments and compromises that took place will increase, and not decrease, your appreciation of just what an incredible group of people they were.

You're a slimy little fella aren't ya? I'm reasonably aware of the compromises that had to take place. I'm aware the influences the ancient Greeks had on the Founders. I'm aware of the reasons behind the necessity for the publishing the Federalist papers. I know why the Founding Fathers insisted on a Republic and not a democracy.
How about you?

The constituiton enforces nothing, the laws govern acceptable behavior. The laws are held to be constitutional or not. I hate to tell you this but that is how the system works! How do you think it works?

The Constitution is the boundary. It is the ultimate law of man in our nation. It insists that all mans laws stay within it's restriction. You see it as a nuisance to your views...obstructionist. I see it as a limit to what you and yours may try to impose on me and mine. I would love it if progs dearly held our views on constitutional limits...they do not. Instead they "run full speed ahead toward another future"...irrespective of those boundaries.



to be continued.

You're the guy who said you were proud of seeing the founders as a single mindset, not me, slimy is as slimy does, dude.

And as to the Constituion, you just said you agreed with me in different words. I said nothing about subverting the Constitution, this is all read in by you. Since I disagree with your about your radical hate politics and think you are blaming the wrong people for all the worlds ills, I must not respect the Constitution, is that really your argument?

Because wen NOW both agree that the laws give the constituion teeth, and I'm guessing you see the intrepretation of laws as a sloppy process governed by the whims of lawmakers and judges, then the Constituion is subverted every day, right?

I'm waiting for you to show me via facts how Obama is a Socialist!

 

[cw009]

Heil Glenn Beck!



No, seriously I do like him but I won't "heil" anybody ever. Glenn Beck is the man! Leftists are only scared of him because he is standing up and exposing them. He does it every day. He is their nightmare.

What I wonder is how people that aren't part of the evil believe that the way things are going will work. How does the government keep taxing everybody and running business out while continuously growing at the same time? Where do they get the money? They spend like it is Monopoly money! Except it is monopoly money they can keep printing or stealing from other games and players as they want. I mean seriously. What does the government produce? Nothing! What do they know about respect of the dollar? They don't need to survive day to day because of what they produce or give. They just take!! The great thing is this is a republic and they will know it. People will let them know it. Right now they will fight to keep going the direction they so need but the people and what this Country was founded on will win in the end. I sure hope so anyways. I have that faith. The government and unions can keep taking forcing there way about but those union and government jobs with the high pay won't be so great when the dollar is worth nothing and there is no where else to suck the dollars from. What great principles to follow. Oh yea for sure!!

 

[MikeE]

Heil Glenn Beck!



No, seriously I do like him but I won't "heil" anybody ever. Glenn Beck is the man! Leftists are only scared of him because he is standing up and exposing them. He does it every day. He is their nightmare.

What I wonder is how people that aren't part of the evil believe that the way things are going will work. How does the government keep taxing everybody and running business out while continuously growing at the same time? Where do they get the money? They spend like it is Monopoly money! Except it is monopoly money they can keep printing or stealing from other games and players as they want. I mean seriously. What does the government produce? Nothing! What do they know about respect of the dollar? They don't need to survive day to day because of what they produce or give. They just take!! The great thing is this is a republic and they will know it. People will let them know it. Right now they will fight to keep going the direction they so need but the people and what this Country was founded on will win in the end. I sure hope so anyways. I have that faith. The government and unions can keep taking forcing there way about but those union and government jobs with the high pay won't be so great when the dollar is worth nothing and there is no where else to suck the dollars from. What great principles to follow. Oh yea for sure!!

Here's what has happened with my business since 2008. A major bank that solicited us to apply for a credit line, cut it back by 75% less than six months after they approved it. Interest on the small amount we used was hiked. Fees were hiked and became very inflexible, despite the fact that we run hundreds of thousands of dollars through this bank and have a good credit rating. Business insurance, which used to be an incidental expense, went up twenty percent, after going up about 100% between 2005-2007. Our health insurance, which has steadily risen each year, along with providing bigger co-pays and less benefits, rose 25% in 2 years. Their explanation? People are dropping coverage because of the recession so they are raising rates on the remaining customers.Every product or service that we purchase from a big corporation has gone up, despite being in a recession, which should be deflationary.
The only thing that has gone down is business revenue - 30%.
I regard this exactly as it is - taxation on small business by corporations of the FIRE economy (Finance-Insurance-RealEstate). Most of these corporate expropriations happened under the reign of that most pro-business anti-regulation administration of GW Bush. IMHO to the extent that government is responsible for the crash/corporate coup, it is by doing the bidding of Banks, Insurance, Real Estate corporations, and by encouraging people to go into debt to replace wages that are being stepped on by anti-worker policies of all types.
I have always thought that there was a big difference between Free Enterprise and Capitalism. Free enterprise means the right to start a new business venture if you can do it. Capitalism means Rule by Big Capital. Those who control huge chunks of Capital (obtained by manipulating and subverting constitutional government) Rule with an Iron Fist. We should have governments that help Free Enterprise and restrict Rule by Capital

 

[cw009]

I'm not a fan of G.W. Bush. He is just as guilty as the current administration when it comes to out of control spending and on goes the list... G.W. was faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrr from being conservative!

 

[Stomper]

I'm not a fan of G.W. Bush. He is just as guilty as the current administration when it comes to out of control spending and on goes the list... G.W. was faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrr from being conservative!

+1...

and his steenkin' father Mr. (read my lips...) Geo. H-W. Bush, too! One-term loser... just like President Obama is going to be!!

 

[Stomper]

In the interest of keeping this "gun-centric"...

The gun has been called the great equalizer, meaning that a small person with a gun is equal to a large person, but it is a great equalizer in another way, too. It insures that the people are the equal of their government whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the governed. When the British forgot that they got a revolution. And, as a result, we Americans got a Constitution; a Constitution that, as those who wrote it were determined, would keep men free. If we give up part of that Constitution we give up part of our freedom and increase the chance that we will lose it all.

I am not ready to take that risk. I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive.

- Ronald Reagan, September, 1975