Oregon Measure 114 litigation

[MrJoshuaYoder]

My understanding of his views from working closely with him:
Around 30 or so years ago, Kevin was a rep for NRA initially and then GOA. He became very involved in national politics and got a belly full of back stabbing politicians and organizations that were more concerned with self promotion than needs of the membership. He moved to Oregon shortly after that and brought either the Libertarian or Constitutional party, don't remember which. He left that party after they became focused on a single issue. He's worked closely with Republican politicians and was a frequent visitor to the capitol and at party events for many years. He's been stabbed in the back far too many times to count, and does not hold allegiance to any party because they have not kept their promises to us.

For me, his attitude and rhetoric became clearer once I understood that he is not party affiliated, but rather 2nd amendment focused. His commitment is absolute. Some may see him as too harsh, but he is unwavering and quick to call out those that said they would support our rights but fail to do so over and over again.

I have talked with Kevin before regarding an issue I'm fighting OSP on, he is absolutely a frontline 2A supporter and advocate. He is no nonsense and isn't going to sugar coat anything. He's rightfully pessimistic because of how most of the Oregon republican leadership is spineless and roll over. That's not name calling, that's a blatant fact. Some people might want to dilute that and add words and mince the fact, but Kevin is going to stick to the point and not worry about getting overly wordy on clarification points when that's not the main point at hand. I am very much the same. Sugar coating a bunch of things can be very distracting to the actual point at hand.

 

[MrJoshuaYoder]

I completely understand and acknowledge the frustration. But emotions have to be kept in check. Emotions get you killed or in this case they create a loss. A calm head and a tamed tongue will go much further than lashing out.

I hate all politicians. Left and right. I appreciate what OFF does as well as many other groups. But when we stoup to the level of our "enemies" aka Anti 2A groups we loose. We also have to understand that not everyone views the bill or rights through the same lens. We all have different stances. Even inside the community. Everyone has their own hard line drawn in the sand. And until every single gun owners line aligns with the individual to his left and right we will never be on the same page. And that will never happen.

Just look at this "2A forum" which is a single issue environment. We don't agree on almost anything. Whether it be NFA, FFL transfers, self defense shootings, etc. and the minute you disagree you get called a bootlicker or liberal or whatever…..

What makes one think we will ever be on the same page? You gotta live your life by your own choices. At some point you can't rely on the government to tell you what you can and can't do.

Plenty of gun owners don't even vote. Yet they feel they have the right to b!tch and moan from their couch.

You have some very valid points there. Unfortunately the anti 2A group is very focused, and is on the same page of disarming everyone. They are organized and allow their emotion to bleed into all of their arguments. The amount of people in Oregon that aren't even registered to vote is wild, and of those that are registered, only about half even vote. Yet many complain when stuff get's rammed through. If everyone stood up and voted, we'd probably get better leadership, and better representation. Then maybe we wouldn't be fighting these anti rights movements constantly.

The reality is we have to get loud, we have to be heard, we have to rally and get support. We don't have to 100% agree on all facets of something, but when it comes to the fundamental inalienable rights that we have, those are non-negotiable. Regardless if it's 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A etc. There are many things I disagree with, many of the far left ideologies, and as much as I disagree, those people have a right to believe and say whatever it is.

Same goes with the 2A. I'm an absolutist, not everybody is. Regardless of what level of 2A someone is, I think we can all agree that history shows that governments that have disarmed the people in the past did so slowly, one small thing at a time, until nothing was left. That's what we face today. So even a 2A supporter that thinks "Well I have no use for a 30 round magazine, I don't need one", well that's great but others do. Hopefully that person can realize that, and understand that eroding capacity over time will lead to "Only Bolt Action" at some point.

We need to get better at having a common purpose. We need to educate people.

 

[MrJoshuaYoder]

What's confusing? If nothing changes come the 16th mags over 10 rounds are illegal to purchase even if they were in the state before 2022, but you can keep and carry any mags you have legally (although they might be able to tack it on if you do something stupid and they can prove you bought it after 2022.)

When 3075 passes you can no longer carry with mags over 10 rounds if you can't prove that you bought them before 2022.

Most retailers already don't ship standard capacity magazines to OR.

GunMagWarehouse and TheMagShack are still shipping to Oregon.

 

[MrJoshuaYoder]

"If nothing changes come the 16th mags over 10 rounds are illegal to purchase even if they were in the state before 2022, but you can keep and carry any mags you have legally (although they might be able to tack it on if you do something stupid and they can prove you bought it after 2022.)"

I believe Measure 114 also prohibited the use of 11+ mags for carry use.

I also believe retailers have been shipping 11+ mags to Oregon.

The 'affirmative defense' wording requires that YOU have to prove the magazine was purchased before 2022. They're shifting the burden of proof there. The state will not have to prove you acquired it post 2022. Since magazines aren't serialized, short of having notarized photos of you with the magazines where the magazines have some marking that was added, that's a really tough burden to prove. Even with receipts, because it's possible it's a different magazine.

They worded it they way they did to "Sound reasonable" to get more support, while knowingly making it a total ban.

 

[MrJoshuaYoder]

For Measure 114 if it get's upheld by Oregon Supreme Court, we still have the Federal Lawsuit pending at US COA.
That said, we have a card up our sleeve there. Bondi's DOJ. There is a 2A taskforce now, with Bondi at the helm and many pro-2a folks in said task force. It wouldn't be hard for her DOJ to simply tell the US COA "We have changed our position and we agree with the position of the plaintiffs", effectively handing us a win. That will take some time.

Here's the reality. The 2A protects our CIVIL RIGHT to keep and bear arms.
When states infringe through voted measures like 114, or state legislation like 3075, etc. we can, and SHOULD, file a complaint with US DOJ. They have an entire civil rights division, dedicated to infringements. The 2A taskforce is comprised of a section of the civil rights division.

I can't remember a time in my life where the government created a task force to work FOR THE PEOPLE on a level like this.

For each and every piece of legislation, I encourage you, each and every one of you, to file a complaint. https://civilrights.justice.gov/

The louder we get there, the more complaints they get, the faster they will likely respond. Bondi has already stated that she will investigate, and litigate any state or locality that is infringing on our 2A rights. Let's make her prove that.

In many of the state legislative pieces they are trying to make Marion County the venue, for STATE LITIGATION. Well if we bring a challenge in federal court, led by the US DOJ, I don't think that Marion County clause is going to mean a damn thing.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

For Measure 114 if it get's upheld by Oregon Supreme Court, we still have the Federal Lawsuit pending at US COA.
That said, we have a card up our sleeve there. Bondi's DOJ. There is a 2A taskforce now, with Bondi at the helm and many pro-2a folks in said task force. It wouldn't be hard for her DOJ to simply tell the US COA "We have changed our position and we agree with the position of the plaintiffs", effectively handing us a win. That will take some time.

OR state was the defendant in that suit. I don't think they will change anything.

immergutrulingOFFMeasure114case

www.documentcloud.org

 

[MrJoshuaYoder]

OR state was the defendant in that suit. I don't think they will change anything.

immergutrulingOFFMeasure114case

www.documentcloud.org

I keep having a hard time finding that, just bookmarked it, thank you.

Fair point. Although, I think it would become a different game if US DOJ get's involved somehow, or even files a completely different suit.

 

[40nascar]

Yup. Running fixes nothing.

Especially running up and down the left coast. Head East, young man! (But not East coast).

 

[Jcon268]

You have some very valid points there. Unfortunately the anti 2A group is very focused, and is on the same page of disarming everyone. They are organized and allow their emotion to bleed into all of their arguments. The amount of people in Oregon that aren't even registered to vote is wild, and of those that are registered, only about half even vote. Yet many complain when stuff get's rammed through. If everyone stood up and voted, we'd probably get better leadership, and better representation. Then maybe we wouldn't be fighting these anti rights movements constantly.

The reality is we have to get loud, we have to be heard, we have to rally and get support. We don't have to 100% agree on all facets of something, but when it comes to the fundamental inalienable rights that we have, those are non-negotiable. Regardless if it's 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A etc. There are many things I disagree with, many of the far left ideologies, and as much as I disagree, those people have a right to believe and say whatever it is.

Same goes with the 2A. I'm an absolutist, not everybody is. Regardless of what level of 2A someone is, I think we can all agree that history shows that governments that have disarmed the people in the past did so slowly, one small thing at a time, until nothing was left. That's what we face today. So even a 2A supporter that thinks "Well I have no use for a 30 round magazine, I don't need one", well that's great but others do. Hopefully that person can realize that, and understand that eroding capacity over time will lead to "Only Bolt Action" at some point.

We need to get better at having a common purpose. We need to educate people.

I believe this is our main problem, definitely in Oregon but probably all over the country. We're fragmented. We let any little thing get between us as a community. We argue a lot and often times not productively. They don't. They are in lock step. If we could set aside our differences long enough to make our cohesion useful, we'd be a formidable foe to the antis. But I think they've figured us out. They probably even have people in this forum watching to see what we say and do if I had to guess. We are our own worst enemy when it comes to fighting as one, sorry to say. Hate to be the pessimist just calling it how I see it.

 

[Jcon268]

The 'affirmative defense' wording requires that YOU have to prove the magazine was purchased before 2022. They're shifting the burden of proof there. The state will not have to prove you acquired it post 2022. Since magazines aren't serialized, short of having notarized photos of you with the magazines where the magazines have some marking that was added, that's a really tough burden to prove. Even with receipts, because it's possible it's a different magazine.

They worded it they way they did to "Sound reasonable" to get more support, while knowingly making it a total ban.

Yep. The whole premise of these bills has been to lay it on thick to start. Then when enough people get upset, they slightly back off certain parts until people say I guess that's okay. That way the end result is the most restrictive law possible without running afoul of the public.

Truth is none of it's okay.. but to them I'm just one of the crazy right wing nutjobs (I'm not even close) so my complaints are wholly dismissible.

 

[40nascar]

Truth is none of it's okay.. but to them I'm just one of the crazy right wing nutjobs (I'm not even close) so my complaints are wholly dismissible.

Are you sure?

 

[Jcon268]

Are you sure?

Do you know me well enough to assert otherwise?

 

[tkdguy]

Please carefully check this out: https://youtu.be/vZzlLlarUCQ?si=QilFvnlRXTAprj70

California Magazine Update seems to describe some temporary relief of standard capacity but the story continues...

On You Tube but the address above does not connect: "CA Magazine Update-They're back"; apparently the CA Supreme Ct did a partial reversal that was favorable.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

We're fragmented. We let any little thing get between us as a community. We argue a lot and often times not productively.

It's been a couple years since I bothered trying to count, but the last time I did, there was close to 20 members who had me on ignore and I can pretty much guarantee you that not a single one of them put me on ignore for my opinions on 2A.

 

[nwslopoke]

114 and 3075 and the Washington equivalents push restrictions but are never accountable for their claims of safety.

It would be interesting if any conservative in the perspective congress of these states could argue an ammendment where those claims aren't met to strike that language out of the law. Will never happen but it would be hard to argue against it.

 

[Unka-Boo]

It's been a couple years since I bothered trying to count, but the last time I did, there was close to 20 members who had me on ignore and I can pretty much guarantee you that not a single one of them put me on ignore for my opinions on 2A.

Wait....we have an ignore button? *shuffles off to check...*

 

[Jcon268]

114 and 3075 and the Washington equivalents push restrictions but are never accountable for their claims of safety.

It would be interesting if any conservative in the perspective congress of these states could argue an ammendment where those claims aren't met to strike that language out of the law. Will never happen but it would be hard to argue against it.

Would be difficult since they cherry pick their statistics to begin with. You'd have to contract some 3rd party data resource but I could actually see something like that happening.

 

[Rkangel]

Curious if M114 is making anyone consider leaving Oregon? I was talking to a few co-workers and they said that M114 is one of the many nails in the coffin for them about Oregon (others being the possible transportation tax increase and sex offender registry changes). The Oregon Supreme Court has made pro-2A decisions before but I'm not holding my breath on M114 being overturned by them.

I'm growing concerned about what Oregon's future looks like with it effectively being a one-party state now that the ruling party has a supermajority. The only problem is where to go. Many of the once desirable places like Texas, Utah, and Arizona have become way to expensive for a working class family.

I have been considering it for quite a while. Several of our friends left to Idaho a few years ago. Convincing others in the family has been a challenge, though. Once we have a breakthrough, or no longer have ties here, we are escaping, too.

The drastic downturn in this state can no longer be ignored. The legislature, the current and former governors, and the rest of the elitist turds in Salem, have made us less safe, less free, less prosperous, less educated and less livable every single year.

 

[smitty007]

"Petition for Review FILED", per Tony Aiello, Jr.!

 

[bad pony]

Curious if M114 is making anyone consider leaving Oregon? I was talking to a few co-workers and they said that M114 is one of the many nails in the coffin for them about Oregon (others being the possible transportation tax increase and sex offender registry changes). The Oregon Supreme Court has made pro-2A decisions before but I'm not holding my breath on M114 being overturned by them.

I'm growing concerned about what Oregon's future looks like with it effectively being a one-party state now that the ruling party has a supermajority. The only problem is where to go. Many of the once desirable places like Texas, Utah, and Arizona have become way to expensive for a working class family.

I work in the semi-conductor industry, my job is here in Oregon. Post military, I've worked a lot of blue collar jobs but this is the only one that pays me well enough to sustain a lifestyle and has me preparing for retirement. Plus, after spending years being stationed in the humid and hot South and the deserts of the world, I'm over hot weather lol