Oregon Measure 114 litigation

[Jcon268]

Same for me.....if Kevin presented better, he would get more traction. Frankly, he comes across as a bitter old doosh...I am subscribed and value the info he presents, but he really needs to work on his PR skills.

Probably that he's just fed up with playing nice with these people and it's coming through in his language.
Last night I did a search on Prozanski and an article popped up where him and Kevin Starrett were interviewed over a gun control measure being pushed. I was thinking it was a recent article..... then I looked at the date and it was from 2014.

That tells me this guy has been dealing directly with these people's BS for at least 11 years and probably a LOT longer. Same people, same problems.....OVER AND OVER. Ad nauseam. That could callous anyone.

I hate to say it but kind of see it as a sign of capitulation. But I understand why it could rub people the wrong way.

 

[PiratePast40]

Probably that he's just fed up with playing nice with these people and it's coming through in his language.
Last night I did a search on Prozanski and and article popped up where him and Kevin Starrett were interviewed over a gun control measure being pushed. I was thinking it was a recent article..... then I looked at the date and it was from 2014.

That tells me this guy has been dealing with these people's BS for at least 11 years and probably a LOT longer. Same people, same problems.....OVER AND OVER. Ad nauseam. That could callous anyone.

My understanding of his views from working closely with him:
Around 30 or so years ago, Kevin was a rep for NRA initially and then GOA. He became very involved in national politics and got a belly full of back stabbing politicians and organizations that were more concerned with self promotion than needs of the membership. He moved to Oregon shortly after that and brought either the Libertarian or Constitutional party, don't remember which. He left that party after they became focused on a single issue. He's worked closely with Republican politicians and was a frequent visitor to the capitol and at party events for many years. He's been stabbed in the back far too many times to count, and does not hold allegiance to any party because they have not kept their promises to us.

For me, his attitude and rhetoric became clearer once I understood that he is not party affiliated, but rather 2nd amendment focused. His commitment is absolute. Some may see him as too harsh, but he is unwavering and quick to call out those that said they would support our rights but fail to do so over and over again.

 

[CamoDeafie]

He moved to Oregon shortly after that and brought either the Libertarian or Constitutional party, don't remember which. He left that party after they became focused on a single issue

Guessing the Constitution Party because lately they've been all in on "bringing God back"/anti abortion platform to the detriment of everything else.

 

[Jcon268]

My understanding of his views from working closely with him:
Around 30 or so years ago, Kevin was a rep for NRA initially and then GOA. He became very involved in national politics and got a belly full of back stabbing politicians and organizations that were more concerned with self promotion than needs of the membership. He moved to Oregon shortly after that and brought either the Libertarian or Constitutional party, don't remember which. He left that party after they became focused on a single issue. He's worked closely with Republican politicians and was a frequent visitor to the capitol and at party events for many years. He's been stabbed in the back far too many times to count, and does not hold allegiance to any party because they have not kept their promises to us.

For me, his attitude and rhetoric became clearer once I understood that he is not party affiliated, but rather 2nd amendment focused. His commitment is absolute. Some may see him as too harsh, but he is unwavering and quick to call out those that said they would support our rights but fail to do so over and over again.

Yeah his language conveys (to me) that he completely expects these attacks from the left but his main disappointment seems to be that the Republicans don't have a spine or aren't willing to put their career on the line, etc. Politics is a weird thing nowadays because it's driven a lot more by getting paid than doing the right thing for your constituents. There are certainly other people fighting the Oregon battle with us but he seems to be one of the longest standing.

 

[1775usmc]

I completely understand and acknowledge the frustration. But emotions have to be kept in check. Emotions get you killed or in this case they create a loss. A calm head and a tamed tongue will go much further than lashing out.

I hate all politicians. Left and right. I appreciate what OFF does as well as many other groups. But when we stoup to the level of our "enemies" aka Anti 2A groups we loose. We also have to understand that not everyone views the bill or rights through the same lens. We all have different stances. Even inside the community. Everyone has their own hard line drawn in the sand. And until every single gun owners line aligns with the individual to his left and right we will never be on the same page. And that will never happen.

Just look at this "2A forum" which is a single issue environment. We don't agree on almost anything. Whether it be NFA, FFL transfers, self defense shootings, etc. and the minute you disagree you get called a bootlicker or liberal or whatever…..

What makes one think we will ever be on the same page? You gotta live your life by your own choices. At some point you can't rely on the government to tell you what you can and can't do.

Plenty of gun owners don't even vote. Yet they feel they have the right to b!tch and moan from their couch.

 

[Jcon268]

I completely understand and acknowledge the frustration. But emotions have to be kept in check. Emotions get you killed or in this case they create a loss. A calm head and a tamed tongue will go much further than lashing out.

I hate all politicians. Left and right. I appreciate what OFF does as well as many other groups. But when we stoup to the level of our "enemies" aka Anti 2A groups we loose. We also have to understand that not everyone views the bill or rights through the same lens. We all have different stances. Even inside the community. Everyone has their own hard line drawn in the sand. And until every single gun owners line aligns with the individual to his left and right we will never be on the same page. And that will never happen.

Just look at this "2A forum" which is a single issue environment. We don't agree on almost anything. Whether it be NFA, FFL transfers, self defense shootings, etc. and the minute you disagree you get called a bootlicker or liberal or whatever…..

What makes one think we will ever be on the same page? You gotta live your life by your own choices. At some point you can't rely on the government to tell you what you can and can't do.

Plenty of gun owners don't even vote. Yet they feel they have the right to b!tch and moan from their couch.

I agree and this is why I mentioned that I see this as a sign of capitulation. We're clearly losing the battle. Even if we don't lose it here, we will down the road. So it becomes a waste of money and the only thing left to do is be frustrated that it couldn't have been nipped in the bud somewhere way back when. Then, unless cooler heads prevail, insults generally start being slung (see Kevin Starrett).

There are a LOT of people taking all of this seriously now that couldn't be bothered to for the last 10 years. I bought my first firearm in late 2015/ early 2016. I signed up on this forum in 2017. By 2018 I attended my first rally in Salem and then another again the next year. Took time off of work, shook hands and also met with gubernatorial candidates (Greg Wooldridge in Sandy, etc). I realized pretty quickly that I was going to lose some liberties if I didn't get involved. Wrote a lot of letters to a lot of Reps/Senators/Politicians, got dismissive copy-paste responses as per usual.

Was any of it wasted time? No. But it's frustrating to think how much time was spent just to have them play dirty tricks and backstab us in the marble nut-house.... for sure.

 

[Leto]

I completely understand and acknowledge the frustration. But emotions have to be kept in check. Emotions get you killed or in this case they create a loss. A calm head and a tamed tongue will go much further than lashing out.

I hate all politicians. Left and right. I appreciate what OFF does as well as many other groups. But when we stoup to the level of our "enemies" aka Anti 2A groups we loose. We also have to understand that not everyone views the bill or rights through the same lens. We all have different stances. Even inside the community. Everyone has their own hard line drawn in the sand. And until every single gun owners line aligns with the individual to his left and right we will never be on the same page. And that will never happen.

Just look at this "2A forum" which is a single issue environment. We don't agree on almost anything. Whether it be NFA, FFL transfers, self defense shootings, etc. and the minute you disagree you get called a bootlicker or liberal or whatever…..

What makes one think we will ever be on the same page? You gotta live your life by your own choices. At some point you can't rely on the government to tell you what you can and can't do.

Plenty of gun owners don't even vote. Yet they feel they have the right to b!tch and moan from their couch.

Well said! I'm new here, but it seems important if we could get on board with just a couple of things, stick to talking points when outside of the forum. It seems like this would serve us better.

The other side as no intention of giving up. I'm pretty sure their end goal is Justices who think "well regulated" militia equates to a state's/ commonwealth's national guard. And then it's all over. Them's the stakes!

We need more of the general public on our side. I don't think we win that with emotional displays. Facts and growing response times are on our side, though. Among other things. Just need to communicate that to an audience willing to listen.

 

[1775usmc]

I agree and this is why I mentioned that I see this as a sign of capitulation. We're clearly losing the battle. Even if we don't lose it here, we will down the road. So it becomes a waste of money and the only thing left to do is be frustrated that it couldn't have been nipped in the bud somewhere way back when. Then, unless cooler heads prevail, insults generally start being slung (see Kevin Starrett).

There are a LOT of people taking all of this seriously now that couldn't be bothered to for the last 10 years. I bought my first firearm in late 2015/ early 2016. I signed up on this forum in 2017. By 2018 I attended my first rally in Salem and then another again the next year. Took time off of work, shook hands and also met with gubernatorial candidates (Greg Wooldridge in Sandy, etc). I realized pretty quickly that I was going to lose some liberties if I didn't get involved. Wrote a lot of letters to a lot of Reps/Senators/Politicians, got dismissive copy-paste responses as per usual.

Was any of it wasted time? No. But it's frustrating to think how much time was spent just to have them play dirty tricks and backstab us in the marble nut-house.... for sure.

I vote. That's about the only thing a politician will voluntarily ever get from me.

 

[1775usmc]

Well said! I'm new here, but it seems important if we could get on board with just a couple of things, stick to talking points when outside of the forum. It seems like this would serve us better.

The other side as no intention of giving up. I'm pretty sure their end goal is Justices who think "well regulated" militia equates to a state's/ commonwealth's national guard. And then it's all over. Them's the stakes!

We need more of the general public on our side. I don't think we win that with emotional displays. Facts and growing response times are on our side, though. Among other things. Just need to communicate that to an audience willing to listen.

Unfortunately the general public runs on a spectrum. The same way this group does. One side is absolute equal to the opposing side. And then you're left with the people in the middle. Nobody is going to get what they want. And they will continue to fight and spend money until they do.

We have free will, free choice and freedom. It comes with benefits and consequences.

Creating a relationship with someone who has opposing views will go much further than screaming names and pointing fingers. Unfortunately both "sides" refuse to sit across the table from eachother and just talk.

 

[Leto]

Unfortunately the general public runs on a spectrum. The same way this group does. One side is absolute equal to the opposing side. And then you're left with the people in the middle. Nobody is going to get what they want. And they will continue to fight and spend money until they do.

We have free will, free choice and freedom. It comes with benefits and consequences.

Creating a relationship with someone who has opposing views will go much further than screaming names and pointing fingers. Unfortunately both "sides" refuse to sit across the table from eachother and just talk.

Indeed, a small fraction of the electorate really care on either side, leaving the large chunk of the spectrum in the middle susceptible to the influence of either side. We all have the freedom to choose on many things, one reason I love the experiment that is the US. Just got to get that middle to choose our way. Just got to convince the younguns that no one is gonna save them but themselves.

 

[Jcon268]

I vote. That's about the only thing a politician will voluntarily ever get from me.

It should go without saying, I do as well. Lost faith in the system a long time ago but I don't accept defeat and I always try to think....what if I was the vote that made the difference.

 

[1775usmc]

It should go without saying, I do as well. Lost faith in the system a long time ago but I don't accept defeat and I always try to think....what if I was the vote that made the difference.

Same. I have my line drawn in the sand. That decision has already been made.

 

[Jcon268]

Unfortunately the general public runs on a spectrum. The same way this group does. One side is absolute equal to the opposing side. And then you're left with the people in the middle. Nobody is going to get what they want. And they will continue to fight and spend money until they do.

This is actually what makes me want to fight harder. The other side believes they have a right to feel safe and as we know, nobody can guarantee your safety but you. In addition to that, their rights end where mine begin. They don't have the right to attack my rights. Certainly not using my money.

 

[cityrice]

 

[nammac]

You want change in Oregon State government, do away with mail-in balloting and require voter id. Period.

I have to provide photo id to prove my parentage to have my kid seen by the pediatrician…. How much more important is being identified as legally qualified to vote….

 

[PiratePast40]

You want change in Oregon State government, do away with mail-in balloting and require voter id. Period.

I have to provide photo id to prove my parentage to have my kid seen by the pediatrician…. How much more important is being identified as legally qualified to vote….

Not going to happen. Ballot reform needs to happen in other ways but with the ORP supporting a democrat instead of Dennis Linthicum, reform is many years down the road. Without audits, accountability, responsibility and repercussions for bad behavior, nothing is going to change. It's a long term fight and it won't be pretty.

 

[nammac]

Not going to happen. Ballot reform needs to happen in other ways but with the ORP supporting a democrat instead of Dennis Linthicum, reform is many years down the road. Without audits, accountability, responsibility and repercussions for bad behavior, nothing is going to change. It's a long term fight and it won't be pretty.

Understood…

Portland, Salem and Eugene make the rules for the rest of us…. Oregon is in a sad state of affairs. The democrats here make organized crime back east look like amarteurs…

 

[lucusloc]

We are going to have to see how the federal SAVE act impacts things. Granted that only covers registration, but it is a huge first step.

 

[JJE76]

I will never pay the permit to purchase fee. I'l

 

[TTSX]

I will never pay the permit to purchase fee. I'll buy guns the old fashion way, friends in Idaho etc. This state is a joke, basically telling me every mag I've purchased since 2022 is illegal. Not going to let democrats turn me into a criminal.

The feds say what you're planning to do isn't legal in any way. Not sure I'd want to post something like that on the Internet for who knows who to see.