Oregon Measure 114 litigation

[PiratePast40]

Don't know why all the self imposed stress over something that, as a minimum, is many months out, or even as far out as July of next year.

 

[Jcon268]

I'm going to talk with my shop, today. I'll report back if they have anything new to share.

My experience is that FFLs know about as much as us, I'm sure they've been getting mixed signals from the state regarding things other than the magazine cap ban. If anyone is closer to the source maybe they can shed some light. Curious how the appeals process is updating. I've been getting my info from Derek LeBlanc on Oregon Firearms Advocates page on FB. He's pretty close to the source.

 

[lucusloc]

Don't know why all the self imposed stress over something that, as a minimum, is many months out, or even as far out as July of next year.

If the stay expires on the 14th (as is the latest new we have on it states) that mans not only the mag capacity limits go into effect, but also the permitting/training requirements for every single purchase. As far as I am aware the reversal of the stay will be for the entire law, not just the capacity issue.

But we still have no clue what a qualifying class would look like, nor is there any system in place to issue a permit on class completion, nor is there any way to record that valid permit on and BGC check system to show compliance. Literally no part of that entire system required by the law is ready to go, even years after the first proposed go-live date.

But if the stay is removed suddenly all of those provisions are theoretically enforceable, lack of systems be damned. And the state still has not told impacted FFLs what the plans are, so they have no idea how to comply with the new legal requirements.

Yes, all of that is supposed to be changed with 3075, but 3075 has not been passed yet, so 114 will still be the law in effect.

Someone needs to sort that out and communicate the requirements fast. There is only a week left, not months to a year.

 

[ScottInPDX]

If the stay expires on the 14th (as is the latest new we have on it states) that mans not only the mag capacity limits go into effect, but also the permitting/training requirements for every single purchase. As far as I am aware the reversal of the stay will be for the entire law, not just the capacity issue.

But we still have no clue what a qualifying class would look like, nor is there any system in place to issue a permit on class completion, nor is there any way to record that valid permit on and BGC check system to show compliance. Literally no part of that entire system required by the law is ready to go, even years after the first proposed go-live date.

But if the stay is removed suddenly all of those provisions are theoretically enforceable, lack of systems be damned. And the state still has not told impacted FFLs what the plans are, so they have no idea how to comply with the new legal requirements.

Yes, all of that is supposed to be changed with 3075, but 3075 has not been passed yet, so 114 will still be the law in effect.

Someone needs to sort that out and communicate the requirements fast. There is only a week left, not months to a year.

I don't think that's quite accurate. Judge Immergut put the permit requirement on hold in the federal case until a system for issuing permits is in place. Mag ban should be the only provision to go into effect.

 

[PiratePast40]

If the stay expires on the 14th (as is the latest new we have on it states) that mans not only the mag capacity limits go into effect, but also the permitting/training requirements for every single purchase. As far as I am aware the reversal of the stay will be for the entire law, not just the capacity issue.

But we still have no clue what a qualifying class would look like, nor is there any system in place to issue a permit on class completion, nor is there any way to record that valid permit on and BGC check system to show compliance. Literally no part of that entire system required by the law is ready to go, even years after the first proposed go-live date.

But if the stay is removed suddenly all of those provisions are theoretically enforceable, lack of systems be damned. And the state still has not told impacted FFLs what the plans are, so they have no idea how to comply with the new legal requirements.

Yes, all of that is supposed to be changed with 3075, but 3075 has not been passed yet, so 114 will still be the law in effect.

Someone needs to sort that out and communicate the requirements fast. There is only a week left, not months to a year.

NO - Judge Immergut ruled that the permit to purchase portion CANNOT go into effect until a permit system is in place.

If you have any questions, the experts below crafted and control both the measure and the current bills. They control every detail of M114 and HB3075. Call and write them with every single question that you have and demand answers. They want to micro manage our lives then they better be ready and available 24/7

Floyd Prozanski 503-986-1704 [email protected]
James Manning 503-986-1707 [email protected]
Anthony Broadman 503-986-1727 [email protected]
Sara Geiser Blouin 503-986-1708 [email protected]

 

[lucusloc]

NO - Judge Immergut ruled that the permit to purchase portion CANNOT go into effect until a permit system is in place.

If you have any questions, the experts below crafted and control both the measure and the current bills. They control every detail of M114 and HB3075. Call and write them with every single question that you have and demand answers. They want to micro manage our lives then they better be ready and available 24/7

Floyd Prozanski 503-986-1704 [email protected]
James Manning 503-986-1707 [email protected]
Anthony Broadman 503-986-1727 [email protected]
Sara Geiser Blouin 503-986-1708 [email protected]

Ok, so they are keeping that part of the law stayed until (presumably) 3075 goes into effect. Is the state not communicating that out to FFL when they call in to ask what the status of BGCs are? Or are they keeping tight lipped in the hopes that the FFLs do something actionable as they attempt to stay in compliance with the ever-changing legal landscape?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Ok, so they are keeping that part of the law stayed until (presumably) 3075 goes into effect. Is the state not communicating that out to FFL when they call in to ask what the status of BGCs are? Or are they keeping tight lipped in the hopes that the FFLs do something actionable as they attempt to stay in compliance with the ever-changing legal landscape?

My advice is just listen to Tony. Forget about the what ifs. That's arakboss territory who drove everyone nuts with "what if FFLs do this? What if they do that? Can they do this?…". Oh yea and Buy! Buy! Buy!

 

[lucusloc]

My advice is just listen to Tony. Forget about the what ifs. That's arakboss territory who drove everyone nuts with "what if FFLs do this? What if they do that? Can they do this?…". Oh yea and Buy! Buy! Buy!

The problem is we have FFLs out there right now who do not know how to legally run their businesses after the 14th. This is despite reaching out repeatedly to the state requesting guidance on maintaining legal compliance. If the state knows that part of the law is still stayed then why not just come out and say "no change, carry on as usual and you will be legal"? You would think that would be an easy answer to give. But so far all they have gotten is "We do not have any guidance for performing legal BGCs after the effective date. We will let you know when that guidance has been established." My current FFL has even stopped taking commissions or restocking inventory because they do not know how they would do a transfer without that guidance.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The problem is we have FFLs out there right now who do not know how to legally run their businesses after the 14th. This is despite reaching out repeatedly to the state requesting guidance on maintaining legal compliance. If the state knows that part of the law is still stayed then why not just come out and say "no change, carry on as usual and you will be legal"? You would think that would be an easy answer to give. But so far all they have gotten is "We do not have any guidance for performing legal BGCs after the effective date. We will let you know when that guidance has been established." My current FFL has even stopped taking commissions or restocking inventory because they do not know how they would do a transfer without that guidance.

I would forward them Tony's Facebook statement that was quoted on this thread or another thread. That's the most accurate source of info we have. The state is worthless for info.

 

[lucusloc]

I would forward them Tony's Facebook statement that was quoted on this thread or another thread. That's the most accurate source of info we have. The state is worthless for info.

Yes, but that is kinda the problem. Tony is not their lawyer, nor does he actually have any authority. I am not doubting the accuracy of his statements, but that info really needs to come from authoritative sources on the topic, i.e. the state.

If, for some reason, Tony got it wrong the state is not gong to take any of his citations as grounds for leniency when they meter out consequences to any FFLs who ran afoul of whatever the rules were supposed to be. The state should be required to figure out what the rules are (even if they are not changing one bit) and accurately communicate that information to any FFL that thinks it necessary to ask.

Playing games like this does drive FFLs out of the business, if just for the simple fact that they don't want to deal with the stress and BS anymore. At this point I am not sure we would even call that a "conspiracy theory" anymore, it is more like well established fact.

 

[1775usmc]

Don't know why all the self imposed stress over something that, as a minimum, is many months out, or even as far out as July of next year.

Cause the sky is falling…. And humans are emotional.

 

[dinky450]

@Kids_SAFE_Fdn Has been Fighting and has given testimony. Derek has been down there fighting for our rights He has a pretty good idea what's going on.

 

[mhayd93]

Cause the sky is falling…. And humans are emotional.

In all fairness the 2A sky is pretty much falling in Oregon for anyone other than the most severe of Fudds…

 

[1775usmc]

In all fairness the 2A sky is pretty much falling in Oregon for anyone other than the most severe of Fudds…

I don't see it that way.

It's sucks… absolutely. It's all bullsh!t.

But I will survive. There are ways around all of this.

 

[mhayd93]

I don't see it that way.

It's sucks… absolutely. It's all bullsh!t.

But I will survive. There are ways around all of this.

Well obviously it isn't life or death, but for a forum dedicated to the 2nd Amendment, I think it's pretty acceptable for people to be venting/expressing the myriad concerns that Measure 114 brings with respect to their ability to exercise the 2nd Amendment.

I've already "got mine" by and large, but these restrictions still get me upset on principal alone; that and thinking about all the current sub-18 year olds who will not have the same opportunity to exercise their rights when they come of age.

 

[1775usmc]

Well obviously it isn't life or death, but for a forum dedicated to the 2nd Amendment, I think it's pretty acceptable for people to be venting/expressing the myriad concerns that Measure 114 brings with respect to their ability to exercise the 2nd Amendment.

I've already "got mine" by and large, but these restrictions still get me upset on principal alone; that and thinking about all the current sub-18 year olds who will not have the same opportunity to exercise their rights when they come of age.

Same. But I hate everything about our government along with all the politicians. Left, Right and Center.

The 2A is extremely important to me but it's not what my life revolves around. In all honesty I'm not to wrapped up in the 10 round mag BS. The thought of permit process gets way more under my skin. I won't be buying any new guns if that gets implemented. There are still plenty of ways to get mags, parts, etc. At the end of the day I still am going to carry a gun the same as I did today. Maybe I swap out for 10 round mags. Maybe I don't. But at the end of the day my life will continue the same way it has the past 36 years of my life.

It's a mystery.

 

[mhayd93]

The thought of permit process gets way more under my skin. I won't be buying any new guns if that gets implemented. There are still plenty of ways to get mags, parts, etc. At the end of the day I still am going to carry a gun the same as I did today.

100%

 

[TTSX]

If someone with better Google-fu than I could post the actual ruling on the federal side of the case from judge immergut that states the permit to purchase portion can't be legally implemented without an established process, that'd be great... I'm sceptical for now.

 

[bcp]

If someone with better Google-fu than I could post the actual ruling on the federal side of the case from judge immergut that states the permit to purchase portion can't be legally implemented without an established process, that'd be great... I'm sceptical for now.

Here it is. After a quick look, I didn't find that part. I missed it, or it was a separate order.

immergutrulingOFFMeasure114case

www.documentcloud.org

Bruce

 

[lucusloc]

Here it is. After a quick look, I didn't find that part. I missed it, or it was a separate order.

immergutrulingOFFMeasure114case

www.documentcloud.org

Bruce

Yeah, this is where it gets confusing (and why the state has a responsibility to clear this all up for FFLs); there are two cases, one in the Federal Court which is on hold, and one in the Oregon Court of Appeals (which the Federal case is waiting on). And this is where I may be getting mixed up too. I thought the State level stay was (will be) fully rescinded, including the permitting portion of 114. But if that part is still stayed on the federal case the state rescission is effectively moot for that bit. But now I am not sure the state rescinded the whole thing, and they only rescinded the stay on the mag cap issue? Either way there ought to be some official source that can speak authoritatively on the status of the law and what will be expected of FFLs come the 14th. The fact that no one at the state level can do that is a travesty in and of itself, to say nothing of actually attempting to enforce the law in its current state (if that is indeed their plans).