M16 / M4 vs AR15

[Cerberus Group]

As the thread title implies, I have been pondering this for a loooong time, but this video got me to make a thread about the subject....I'M THE MAJORITY!!!

The guy in the video states a few things; There are no military grade weapons sold at gun shows; AR15 is not Military grade; Anyone that goes into combat with a AR15 is a fool; and use a semi-auto 22 caliber rifle will be killed in 15 minutes in combat with that gun. I agree with the argument he makes and what he is standing for, but he looked a bit foolish when he got to the AR part.

Dispell some myths? Let's do that.

First off let me say, I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter, Lifetime NRA member, and own my own shooting school and will not turn in any AR or high cap magazine I own at any time if the government demands, that being said...

We make fun of those on the anti-gun side when statements such as "Full Semi-Auto" and "Assault rifle" are used, along with many other idiotic things. I believe that we are doing a disservice to our own fight when we can't come clean on the issue of the AR debacle.

I know there are many on here that have built, building, or have researched into building AR's. Folks, except for the fire control parts that make an AR variant full-auto, there isn't any difference.

I worked for a Sheriff's Dept. where we had surplus M-16's. Every part will interchange, again except for the fire control parts. But then, make the hole for the auto sear, and grind out the lower receiver if needed to accept the full-auto control parts...are there ya go.

Onto the statements;

1 - No Military grade weapons sold at gun shows. If the only thing that makes any AR Military grade is being full-auto, then ok, but I disagree with that being the only thing. There are AR's made today that meet Mil-Spec. But then I see M1 Garand's, Colt 1911's, M9's etc being sold at gun shows...military grade? Semantics? But then I see this whole AR debacle based on semantics as well.

2 - AR15 is not a Military grade weapon...see above.

3 - Anyone who would go into combat with a AR15 is a fool...not a good statement to make...see above. I have a feeling some of you would have no problem going into combat with your AR. I know I would have no problem using mine.

4 - If you used a semi-automatic 22 rifle, you'd be killed in 15 minutes...again, not the smartest thing to say...as we all know, they use the very same ammunition.

I was raised calling a spade a spade, and I see a spade here. I know we're all wanting to save the AR from gun grabbing extinction, but calling it what it truly is is not a sin. I am proud to be able to own a military weapon and to be able to freely carry it as I see fit. I am also sure that if SHTF, you'd be looking at your AR as the first thing to grab and go with...or something similar.

Many of us collect such military weapons...M1 Garand, M14 etc and the list goes on...

When the 2nd Amendment was ratified, citizens had the same weapons the government had and I believe it should still be that way today. If it was, I do not believe the government would be doing what it is doing today...they would know what might happen.

I am hoping for a insightful dialog here. Thoughts?

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[IOM]

I agree with what you say Cerberus, I think he just made those staements at face value.

We know nothing of his background or where he came from, from my understanding he was reading off a tele-prompter, again that's from what I heard.

Semantics, yes and yes...

 

[Cerberus Group]

I've heard this same argument from others the last few years...I just think its time to call it what it is.

Yes, I own AR's. Yes, they are military. No, you can't have them.

As Sarah Sanders would then say....next

 

[EPS]

I agree with what you say Cerberus, I think he just made those staements at face value.

We know nothing of his background or where he came from, from my understanding he was reading off a tele-prompter, again that's from what I heard.

Semantics, yes and yes...

No tela promter he said he didn't even plan on speaking that night until he got there HE IS NOT EVEN A GUN OWNER FROM WHAT THEY SAID ON Fox and friends this morning

 

[EPS]

He's just pissed off that they are going after law abiding people and the police and letting BAD guy's walk free

 

[Medic!]

Nothing wrong with military grade weapons made for killing people in our hands.

What do you think the guns secured by the 2nd were ment to be used for.
Hunting?


I'll say it again.
Don't like the 2nd? Change or abolish it.

But don't pretend it doesn't mean what it means.


As to AR's not being military quality?
My first issue M-16 said AR-15 on the side. Like this one.

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's all a red herring because the left wants ever lovin last gun.

 

[Colts4me]

I have never carried a firearm into war but have been in a war. Is the AR the best personal defense weapon you can carry? Why or why not? Is the AR 15 a military weapon of war, no it isn't, it's fair copy of an assault rifle that is limited to semi auto fire. Can you convert a AR to full auto, yes you can but it takes more than just drillng a hole to get one that runs. Lots of registered NFA guns were converted from semi autos.some even run well. My opinion is based on experiences.

 

[Mr Smith]

That's what snowflakes do.

This country is so effed up that a crim can break into your house, cut his arm on the broken glass from smashing your window, and sue you for the medical bills of getting cut on your broken glass... They slip and fall on your just mopped floor and hurt themselves.. your fault not the criminals who was there to rob you...

All those snowflakes will be first to go when SHTF...

 

[Medic!]

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[oli700]

He could have left that part out... he took some valid technicalities to the extreme ....other than the 22 thing , no way to stand behind that statement . I liked the rest of it enough, I think he was trying to speak their language a bit there , I hope .

 

[Cerberus Group]

I agree, his stand and what he had to say was great...I just cringed at the AR part.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I agree, his stand and what he had to say was great...I just cringed at the AR part.

Hey, if the left can say all the crazy crap that they said and say, I'm just fine with my man saying what he said.
so there

 

[cigars]

No need to shoot the guy down (absolutely no pun intended). He was brave enough to get up in front of a gun grabbing city council and stand up for every law abiding 2A American. Let it be.

 

[Basedgreaser]

Disagree. Anyone who goes into combat without a full auto, or multiple team members with full auto is at an automatic disadvantage. The inability of semi autos to mach enemies volume of fire will crush you. pull the trigger quickly as you want that finger will get tired.

It doesnt matter how comfortable you are, being comfortable with a gun and it actually being effective in combat are two different things.

As far as military grade im half and half. Milspec is garbage and the civilian market has almost always had access to better firearms. Whetherthe day of lever guns or now with 4000$ rigs which are objectively better, but not in the role of combat

 

[slimmer13]

I think the FCG IS a huge distinction and I also think that lack of FA capabilities for suppression in a moderately weak cartridge is quite a disadvantage.

If I had to go into battle with a semi auto, I'd at least want a .308.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

IMO, The name of the game is establishing (ours) or tearing down (theirs) narrative. Not semantic differences of rifles.

By definition an assault rifle is capable of FA or select fire. Standard civilian ARs are not capable of that off the shelf. Thus I do not agree that military grade weapons are the same as ARs. It all comes down to the extra capability not durability or caliber or various other non sequiturs people get hung up on.

 

[pharmseller]

I'm okay with his statements. I'm tired of the left getting to use all the hyperbole. It's our turn to make inflammatory statements.



P

 

[EPS]

He is not a gun guy he was probably just saying something that he heard someone else say .as they said before the interview on FOX AND FREINDS .he doesn't own a gun . works and is going to school to finish his degree he wants to be a history teacher

 

[Diamondback]

Semiauto loses suppression fire... just means you need to line up and aim your shots more carefully and make 'em count. AIMED singles targeted with intent are more lethal than spray-n-pray any day... Rock-n-Roll is "General Delivery bulk-rate," but a single sighted on your eyesocket has your name on it, Express Mail with Delivery Confirmation.