Looking for product recommendations(Trigger, Buffer, Buffer Spring) for my PSA 10.5”and 18” AR15.

[AnimalMother]

Looking for product recommendations(Trigger, Buffer, Spring) for my PSA complete 10.5" and 18" AR15. Both the 10.5 and 18" have Magpul Moe stocks. Both the 10.5" and 18" came with identical standard buffers and standard buffer springs.

For the 18", I was thinking of a flat wire spring and H1 buffer. There are so many products, brands and types im not sure what I actually need or what will fit / cYale. I am also not sure if I should get carbine length or rifle length springs for the 18".

Regarding the 10.5, I was thinking of a H2 buffer and flatwire spring. I was told the sprinco blue, Geissele Super 42, tubb flatwire are good. I just don't know which size/type/brand would cycle reliably on my 10.5".

I am looking for a trigger for both. Is the MBT2S a good replacement for a PSA trigger? Or is it too similar and not worth swapping out the PSA EPT trigger?


I asked this same question elsewhere so if it sounds familiar it's just I didn't get the responses or help I wanted on other sites (like Reddit).

I am trying to do my own research but I am lost. I'm hoping someone can post me some links and suggests parts for my 10.5 and 18 inch ARs.

Thank you for your time.

Read More

 

[DirectDrive]

First of all, make sure you actually need this stuff and it's not just something you read about.

I have an assortment of buffer weights and go with whichever one gives me the cyclic rate and ejection pattern that i want.
Never monkeyed with the Tubbs flat wire springs.
Standard springs have been working for me.
I'd go Wolff or Sprinco if I needed to change spring power.

Don't play with springs and buffers at the same time.
Do one at a time so you can track what's going on.

The Larue trigger seems to own the Best Value award.
Moving up the food chain, it's Geissele Country.

I've never warmed up to the cassette triggers, but reportedly there are a few good ones.
The brands that force the use of button heads, dogbones or c-clips are a big turn off for me.

 

[AnimalMother]

First of all, make sure you actually need this stuff and it's not just something you read about.

I have an assortment of buffer weights and go with whichever one gives me the cyclic rate and ejection pattern that i want.
Never monkeyed with the Tubbs flat wire springs.
Standard springs have been working for me.
I'd go Wolff or Sprinco if I needed to change spring power.

Don't play with springs and buffers at the same time.
Do one at a time so you can track what's going on.

The Larue trigger seems to own the Best Value award.
Moving up the food chain, it's Giselle Country.

I've never warmed up to the cassette triggers, but reportedly there are a few good ones.
The brands that force the use of button heads, dogbones or c-clips are a big turn off for me.

Thanks for the info.

My 10.5 feels like the buffer is hitting the rear of the tube. Most likely overgassed so I wanted to try a spring or a buffer for the 10.5". The 18" is actually fine but sometimes I get a twang sound from the tube and sometimes it feels like the buffer hits the rear of the tube as well.

My biggest upgrade would have been the K2 XL but I cannot find it in stock in OD

 

[titsonritz]

A 10.5" barrel is a violent upper even with a normal gas port size, which Crane specs at .071" + H2 buffer and SOLGW opens theirs up a little to .073", I am betting PSA is quite a bit larger. Bottom line, without knowing the gas port size, I would expect to use a H3 buffer and a blue Sprinco spring on that 10.3".

What is the gas system length 18", rifle or mid? Crane specs their MK12 18" barrel, rifle length gas system and rifle buffer with a .0995" gas port. What style of buffer tube?

The type of spring will be determine by the type receiver extension (aka buffer tube). Carbine tubes take carbine springs and carbine buffers...rifles take rifle tubes, buffers and springs...A5 system combine the 2 and take a proprietary tube and buffer and rifle spring (green from Spinco).

FYI carbine springs should measure 10 1/16"-11 1/4" and rifle spring should measure 11 3/4"-13 1/2"

 

[AnimalMother]

A 10.5" barrel is a violent upper even with a normal gas port size, which Crane specs at .071" + H2 buffer and SOLGW opens theirs up a little to .073", I am betting PSA is quite a bit larger. Bottom line, without knowing the gas port size, I would expect to use a H3 buffer and a blue Sprinco spring on that 10.3".

What is the gas system length 18", rifle or mid? Crane specs their MK12 18" barrel, rifle length gas system and rifle buffer with a .0995" gas port. What style of buffer tube?

The type of spring will be determine by the type receiver extension (aka buffer tube). Carbine tubes take carbine springs and carbine buffers...rifles take rifle tubes, buffers and springs...A5 system combine the 2 and take a proprietary tube and buffer and rifle spring (green from Spinco).

FYI carbine springs should measure 10 1/16"-11 1/4" and rifle spring should measure 11 3/4"-13 1/2"

This was allot of help.

The 18" has a rifle length gas system and a carbine stock. Both use .750 gas block diameter. Both currently have standard buffers and springs in them their carbine milspec buffer tubes.

Regarding the sprinco springs, I'm amazed they get recommended so often as I am equally recommended to get flat springs.

I can try a sprinco blue and h3 for the 10.5
The 18" I'm thinking an H1

I know a proper remedy would be an adjustable gas block but I think maybe it's not necessary

 

[Cerberus Group]

This was allot of help.

The 18" has a rifle length gas system and a carbine stock. Both use .750 gas block diameter. Both currently have standard buffers and springs in them their carbine milspec buffer tubes.

The number that Tits talked about is the barrel gas port size, not the diameter of the gas block. That's just the diameter of the barrel at the point where the gas block sits.

 

[nwslopoke]

I have both firearms you listed. Both are perfectly fine and reliable unmodified. But both of mine have upgraded triggers. MBT 2 stage and POF 4lb and H1 buffers. Still very reliable. Either way is good. Triggers were the most notable difference for the better.

 

[titsonritz]

The Larue trigger seems to own the Best Value award.
Moving up the food chain, it's Giselle Country.

They were until they bumped their prices up, today that title goes to the Centurion Arms AST.

 

[titsonritz]

Don't play with springs and buffers at the same time.
Do one at a time so you can track what's going on.

This is sound advice.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Go with the spring first, then the buffer.

Going to get differing opinions, but H and H1 buffers are generally too light...start with H2. If you have to go with a H or H1 and/or a light spring, generally the system is under gassed.

Stay away from adjustable gas blocks, not necessary...just one more thing that needs attention. If you don't regularly turn the adjustment, it will carbon up and lock in place over time.

I use Sprinco springs for both action and extractor. have some going on 20 years...and still holding their rated value.

Carbine length gas systems batter the rifle pretty well. Slow down the action with a Blue spring as mentioned above...then try a heavier buffer. The ejection pattern doesn't always tell you what's going on.

For extractor springs...4 coil for mid-length or longer, 5 coil for carbine and shorter...and loose the dang o-ring.

If you want to try a Sprinco spring, PM me and I'll send you one...no charge...you won't look at another spring.

 

[Tony617]

My Aero 10.5" with an SBA3 pistol brace cycles fine with a carbine buffer and regular spring. My lower is an Aero as well that I build myself and I put a 3.5lb CMC single stage curved trigger in it.

 

[powermad]

PSA gas blocks aren't dimpled.
I would get a dimple jig for $30 to start with.

For mid length and rifle gas systems I prefer the A5 action with an A5H2 buffer.
I use a Tubbs flat wire in one and a green spring in the other.
If it's over gassed BRT has gas tubes sized to run whatever buffer and spring combo you want to use.

I tried a Centurion Arms AST two stage trigger and bought another one.
I did have a PSA EPT and BCM PNT.

BCM has extractor spring kits (5 wire) for $5, I bought a few and put them in all of my BCG's.

 

[3MTA3]

The PSA EPT Trigger I got with a lower kit is almost as good as the ALG ACT I usually use for single stage triggers. I mean it's really, really close. IMO unless you want a 2 stage trigger it isn't worth the $$$ to upgrade to another single stage.

 

[AnimalMother]

First of all, make sure you actually need this stuff and it's not just something you read about.

I have an assortment of buffer weights and go with whichever one gives me the cyclic rate and ejection pattern that i want.
Never monkeyed with the Tubbs flat wire springs.
Standard springs have been working for me.
I'd go Wolff or Sprinco if I needed to change spring power.

Don't play with springs and buffers at the same time.
Do one at a time so you can track what's going on.

The Larue trigger seems to own the Best Value award.
Moving up the food chain, it's Giselle Country.

I've never warmed up to the cassette triggers, but reportedly there are a few good ones.
The brands that force the use of button heads, dogbones or c-clips are a big turn off for me.

It was something I read about. I fired about 4k rounds(4k shells of my Brass is for sale in the classifieds) before I ever thought about upgrading the rifle. I spent about 2-3 days a week in the Tillamook.

Both the 10.5 and 18" never had a single issue. So I kept using them as they are. Recently, I started thinking and reading about springs, buffers, triggers etc... the MBT trigger is the first upgrade I am going to do.

The number that Tits talked about is the barrel gas port size, not the diameter of the gas block. That's just the diameter of the barrel at the point where the gas block sits.

Oh I see, the 18" has a gas length rifle. The 10.5" has a carbine length gas system. I detailed my plan at the end of this behemoth post.

I have both firearms you listed. Both are perfectly fine and reliable unmodified. But both of mine have upgraded triggers. MBT 2 stage and POF 4lb and H1 buffers. Still very reliable. Either way is good. Triggers were the most notable difference for the better.

Thanks, this is really helpful. I am serious thinking about just keeping the stock spring and maybe playing with a H1 Buffer on the 18" and H2 or H3 on the 10.1". The MBT is the first upgrade I'll do.

Go with the spring first, then the buffer.

Going to get differing opinions, but H and H1 buffers are generally too light...start with H2. If you have to go with a H or H1 and/or a light spring, generally the system is under gassed.

Stay away from adjustable gas blocks, not necessary...just one more thing that needs attention. If you don't regularly turn the adjustment, it will carbon up and lock in place over time.

I use Sprinco springs for both action and extractor. have some going on 20 years...and still holding their rated value.

Carbine length gas systems batter the rifle pretty well. Slow down the action with a Blue spring as mentioned above...then try a heavier buffer. The ejection pattern doesn't always tell you what's going on.

For extractor springs...4 coil for mid-length or longer, 5 coil for carbine and shorter...and loose the dang o-ring.

If you want to try a Sprinco spring, PM me and I'll send you one...no charge...you won't look at another spring.

That is really kind of you. I may have taken you upon that too but I purchased the springs already as they seem to have a good long reputation and I have a feeling I may be satisfied with them. The spring being 20 years old is a testament to the quality. When they talk about ejection pattern, my 10.5" eject at 2' Oclock and my 18" ejects at about 3 or 4 o' clock. What is healthy cycling(as in where should the shells actually land) when the buffer/spring are tuned right? Thank you for all your help.

My Aero 10.5" with an SBA3 pistol brace cycles fine with a carbine buffer and regular spring. My lower is an Aero as well that I build myself and I put a 3.5lb CMC single stage curved trigger in it.

Aero, I feel may be better quality or come with better tuned parts the PSA. I am not certain on this take my opinion with grain of salt it's just that I have seen an Aero and they do feel noticeably higher quality.

PSA gas blocks aren't dimpled.
I would get a dimple jig for $30 to start with.

For mid length and rifle gas systems I prefer the A5 action with an A5H2 buffer.
I use a Tubbs flat wire in one and a green spring in the other.
If it's over gassed BRT has gas tubes sized to run whatever buffer and spring combo you want to use.

I tried a Centurion Arms AST two stage trigger and bought another one.
I did have a PSA EPT and BCM PNT.

BCM has extractor spring kits (5 wire) for $5, I bought a few and put them in all of my BCG's.

What do you think about the Tubbs spring? What did you think of the PSA EPT trigger when you finally swapped it out? I saw allot videos where people literally praised the Tubbs flat wire springs(or flatwire springs in general).

The PSA EPT Trigger I got with a lower kit is almost as good as the ALG ACT I usually use for single stage triggers. I mean it's really, really close. IMO unless you want a 2 stage trigger it isn't worth the $$$ to upgrade to another single stage.

I was going to get the Larue MBT trigger, wonder how the stock PSA EPT triggers feels compared to that MBT.

A 10.5" barrel is a violent upper even with a normal gas port size, which Crane specs at .071" + H2 buffer and SOLGW opens theirs up a little to .073", I am betting PSA is quite a bit larger. Bottom line, without knowing the gas port size, I would expect to use a H3 buffer and a blue Sprinco spring on that 10.3".

What is the gas system length 18", rifle or mid? Crane specs their MK12 18" barrel, rifle length gas system and rifle buffer with a .0995" gas port. What style of buffer tube?

The type of spring will be determine by the type receiver extension (aka buffer tube). Carbine tubes take carbine springs and carbine buffers...rifles take rifle tubes, buffers and springs...A5 system combine the 2 and take a proprietary tube and buffer and rifle spring (green from Spinco).

FYI carbine springs should measure 10 1/16"-11 1/4" and rifle spring should measure 11 3/4"-13 1/2"

I am really starting to think that's just how the short barrel ARs feel. I have never tried anything else but I have heard this before. I detailed my plan below. Thanks for all your help, deeply appreciated.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


This thread was extremely helpful to me. I got mentally stuck for while on how to process my next upgrade. I'm grateful for every reply, thank you all.

I think it's safe to say, for my 10.5"... it's best to leave the stock standard spring... or try a Sprinco Blue. For the Springs H1, H2 and H3.. I am thinking they will probably feel better than the stock standard buffer I have now in the 10.5" and 18".

The MBT2S is for sure my first upgrade followed by the K2+ grip. I was going to then toss a H2 or H3 buffer in my 10.5" and a H1 in my 18". Then maybe stick sprinco blue springs in both of them. The plan, as it is written.

 

[powermad]

The PSA and BCM triggers felt about the same. Good mil-specy type triggers.
The Centurion Arms AST was a solid upgrade from those with what I would call a duty type trigger.
Doesn't seem as "touchy" as the Ruger two stage in my .308 and not as prone to unintended double taps.

Before playing around with buffer weights and springs I would see what size the gas port is when you dimple the barrel.
A Daniel Defence 10.5" MK18, ships with a gas port size of .082" and an H buffer.
That is what I would consider the base line.

If the gas port is bigger than that I would go to BRT and get a tube sized to run a carbine spring with an H buffer and call it a day.

Rifle length gas systems are designed to use a rifle spring and buffer.
While a carbine extension, spring and buffer will "work" I feel that's going backwards.
I'm taking advantage of the softer shooting system with a rifle spring and buffer weight.

If you don't want a fixed stock get an intermediate extension, rifle spring and an A5H2 buffer.
Provided your gas port is sized for it.
Which you won't know until you size it when you dimple that barrel.
There are five A5 buffer weights, 0 - 4 for tuning.
I think less buffer weight to get the job done is better, heavy buffers start to feel punchy, like a blow back 9mm.

I don't pay attention to ejection patterns other than the first few shots to see where they are landing for a catch blanket.
With a Faxon 16" mid length gas and a gas port size of .081" it locked back on an A5H4 buffer.
That got a BRT tube and changed how it shot with the A5H2, not as harsh as before.
Definitely not a gimmick.

I haven't had the chance to try out the Tubbs spring.
That went in the 18" that I haven't shot yet.

 

[powermad]

Good gas block set screws are pretty cheap as well.

SONS OF LIBERTY GUN WORKS AR-15 GAS BLOCK SET SCREW | Brownells

Sons of Liberty Gun Works factory OEM AR-15 Gas Block Set Screws are a must have to replace stripped out set screws for you low profile gas block. 1 screw per package. Image depicts top and bottom of screw.

www.brownells.com

Dimpled and using that hardware will make that portion of the system pretty much trouble free.
Next best option to using a pinned block.

The gas port is the start of the whole show.
A centered and secured gas block is the first step in ensuring an efficient system.
Easy to do and doesn't cost much. Bonus if both barrel profiles are the same and you don't have to buy another jig.

That's about the only gripe I have with PSA, they don't dimple the barrel.
Which is simple to take care of yourself until you get one that has the flash hider pinned on.

 

[3MTA3]

Have you considered using the parts that came with it and seeing if they work for you and only replace the ones that need improvement?

 

[Member 34319]

My vote is to shoot it as it came first. Get used to it. Shoot others. See where your rifles can improve if any.

Another thing not mentioned, what are these for? Is reliability a factor? If so, consider the fact that messing around with buffers and springs can result in a less reliable rifle.

Triggers, anything is better than a mil spec trigger, but they are not needed unless you really need it to be better.

Have fun and enjoy the rifles, don't let overthinking modifications get in the way of shooting them and enjoying them for what they are already.

 

[AnimalMother]

My vote is to shoot it as it came first. Get used to it. Shoot others. See where your rifles can improve if any.

Another thing not mentioned, what are these for? Is reliability a factor? If so, consider the fact that messing around with buffers and springs can result in a less reliable rifle.

Triggers, anything is better than a mil spec trigger, but they are not needed unless you really need it to be better.

Have fun and enjoy the rifles, don't let overthinking modifications get in the way of shooting them and enjoying them for what they are already.

I am not really overthinking it. I am beginning to under think it. nwslopoke mentioned that he had both of my rifles and I that he had put allot of rounds through them and so have I... so I trust them both. I really think the biggest upgrade will be the trigger by now, I am convinced as it was what most mention.

Now, about shooting the rifle as it came first. You can see the 4,000 shells I am selling in the classified section. I have been going non-stop to the Tillamook forest since December. As of now, I have done no modifications. I will I'll be going again tomorrow as I do every week on Sunday through Wednesday. I just received another 600 rounds of Norma 223 yesterday. That brass will end up in my classified ad after I edit it to reflect the new weight.

The only thing is the buffer hits the rear of the buffer tube in both my 10.5" and 18" and that is where my rifle can be improved upon. I mentioned this in my second post. So this would be a reliability factor and a comfort factor.

I don't need the trigger to be better, but many have mentioned to that the biggest upgrade has been the trigger. So naturally, that I will do first and see if I can improve groupings(1/2"@ 100 yards on a good day if I am really focusing but usually 1"). After I can remedy the buffer hitting the back of the buffer tube. Even if these are not remedied, I don't dwell on it or overthink. I am much more excited that I live near a place very close to so many shooting spots with views that overlook the mountain ranges all the way to the coast.

Have you considered using the parts that came with it and seeing if they work for you and only replace the ones that need improvement?

Sir, kindly see my previous responses to Reno, DirectDrive and nwslapoke.

Good gas block set screws are pretty cheap as well.

SONS OF LIBERTY GUN WORKS AR-15 GAS BLOCK SET SCREW | Brownells

Sons of Liberty Gun Works factory OEM AR-15 Gas Block Set Screws are a must have to replace stripped out set screws for you low profile gas block. 1 screw per package. Image depicts top and bottom of screw.

www.brownells.com

Dimpled and using that hardware will make that portion of the system pretty much trouble free.
Next best option to using a pinned block.

The gas port is the start of the whole show.
A centered and secured gas block is the first step in ensuring an efficient system.
Easy to do and doesn't cost much. Bonus if both barrel profiles are the same and you don't have to buy another jig.

That's about the only gripe I have with PSA, they don't dimple the barrel.
Which is simple to take care of yourself until you get one that has the flash hider pinned on.

The PSA and BCM triggers felt about the same. Good mil-specy type triggers.
The Centurion Arms AST was a solid upgrade from those with what I would call a duty type trigger.
Doesn't seem as "touchy" as the Ruger two stage in my .308 and not as prone to unintended double taps.

Before playing around with buffer weights and springs I would see what size the gas port is when you dimple the barrel.
A Daniel Defence 10.5" MK18, ships with a gas port size of .082" and an H buffer.
That is what I would consider the base line.

If the gas port is bigger than that I would go to BRT and get a tube sized to run a carbine spring with an H buffer and call it a day.

Rifle length gas systems are designed to use a rifle spring and buffer.
While a carbine extension, spring and buffer will "work" I feel that's going backwards.
I'm taking advantage of the softer shooting system with a rifle spring and buffer weight.

If you don't want a fixed stock get an intermediate extension, rifle spring and an A5H2 buffer.
Provided your gas port is sized for it.
Which you won't know until you size it when you dimple that barrel.
There are five A5 buffer weights, 0 - 4 for tuning.
I think less buffer weight to get the job done is better, heavy buffers start to feel punchy, like a blow back 9mm.

I don't pay attention to ejection patterns other than the first few shots to see where they are landing for a catch blanket.
With a Faxon 16" mid length gas and a gas port size of .081" it locked back on an A5H4 buffer.
That got a BRT tube and changed how it shot with the A5H2, not as harsh as before.
Definitely not a gimmick.

I haven't had the chance to try out the Tubbs spring.
That went in the 18" that I haven't shot yet.

Thanks for the info and experience.
I emailed PSA to see if they can tell me that gas port size. I am at the point most likely will just leave a stock spring and try a heavier buffer when I get a chance. The buffer hitting the tube is not that big of a deal and like said earlier it's just the way 10.5"/short barrel ARs are, naturally a bit violent bunt nothing I cant handle. More like a comfort thing... or maybe a reliability thing. Thank you for all your help.

Thank you everyone for the assistance suggestions and opinions. Deeply appreciated.








****For some reason I noticed some posts in the thread are focused on the assumption I have not shot my rifle and want to upgrade it out of the box without reason despite the reasons being noted early on in the thread. This not the case. Please give the thread a quick read. Thank you kindly.

 

[Member 34319]

I am not really overthinking it. I am beginning to under think it. nwslopoke mentioned that he had both of my rifles and I that he had put allot of rounds through them and so have I... so I trust them both. I really think the biggest upgrade will be the trigger by now, I am convinced as it was what most mention.

Now, about shooting the rifle as it came first. You can see the 4,000 shells I am selling in the classified section. I have been going non-stop to the Tillamook forest since December. As of now, I have done no modifications. I will I'll be going again tomorrow as I do every week on Sunday through Wednesday. I just received another 600 rounds of Norma 223 yesterday. That brass will end up in my classified ad after I edit it to reflect the new weight.

The only thing is the buffer hits the rear of the buffer tube in both my 10.5" and 18" and that is where my rifle can be improved upon. I mentioned this in my second post. So this would be a reliability factor and a comfort factor.

I don't need the trigger to be better, but many have mentioned to that the biggest upgrade has been the trigger. So naturally, that I will do first and see if I can improve groupings(1/2"@ 100 yards on a good day if I am really focusing but usually 1"). After I can remedy the buffer hitting the back of the buffer tube. Even if these are not remedied, I don't dwell on it or overthink. I am much more excited that I live near a place very close to so many shooting spots with views that overlook the mountain ranges all the way to the coast.

****For some reason I noticed some posts in the thread are hyper-focused on the assumption I have not shot my rifle and want to upgrade it out of the box without reason despite the reasons being noted early on in the thread. This not the case. Please give the thread a quick read. Thank you kindly.

Fair enough.

Not sure what you mean by the buffer hitting the back of the buffer tube. It's supposed to do that. Adding a heavier spring and or buffer will work to prevent this. If it doesnt, that is known as "short stroking", which can lead to malfunctions. Changing the buffe can make the rifle feel less "sharp" and it can help reduce felt recoil. You could buy 1-3 heavier buffers. Run one heavier at a time and stop once you are having issues. Try this with many different brands of ammo. One might work well all the way to an H3 and the next ammo won't run a H1. Jeremy at Lucky Sporting Goods in Banks @LuckySG rents out a full set of buffers to test in your gun. He would be a great place to stop by at on the next trip out. Once done, he can get you the weight you need ordered up easy peasy.

Just about any aftermarket trigger is going to make a noticeable difference in improving the felt trigger pull. It can assist to aid in improving the shooters ability to make accurate shots. If you stop by Jeremy's, he likely has a few ARs with different triggers you can feel up.