"Lifeboat" movement

[Father of four]

One thing we need to consider is all the governments toys that would still be out there if TSHTF.

Imagine if the entire world economy collapsed and the coming chaos. All of the military weapons and machines from different countries into the hands of different types of people. Some who would use them for good. Some to gain land, power, wealth and whatever else they wanted.

If only the USA collapsed? Same thing it would be Hellonearth for a while. Surviving to the next day would be the way of life for a while. Being in a community would indeed help. But you and they too could be over run.

There is always someone bigger, faster and stronger. Yes make it a community effort but be ready to bug out again if needed. Or stay and fight or surrender.

 

[Father of four]

Good luck dobanion.

 

[Just Jim]

Say you get your land and grow the food you need. With 10 people how you going to stop the mobs that will come after you when shtf? Plans are all well and good but they should be based in reality. The gourge is a main travel way and maybe a million people will go through there to escape the city and not always on the roads. I supect a better place to run and hide can be purchased.


Plus if you buy in the gourge area then build a really good fire break around the property as the wind blows hard and fast which will bring the fires from Portland right to your door.

jj

 

[Martini_Up]

in a true shtf where society breaks down, all the mountain passes (gorge included) will be a war zone with factions fighting to control them. if getting to your BOL involves going through, prepare yourself accordingly.

 

[RVTECH]

When the Pilgrims came to America they set up a communal effort and found it didn't work so well.

AND they were in a virtual "Land of Plenty" at the time with little competition for the available resources and something like seven out of ten died in the early efforts at colonizing.

 

[Minisocks]

When the Pilgrims came to America they set up a communal effort and found it didn't work so well. What are you going to do to guarentee each "owner" carries his own weight?

The gulag, duh.

 

[dobanion]

Jeez......the disparity is overwhelming. I won't even try to respond.

OK, guess I'll go back to the grind.

 

[Father of four]

No need to worry dobanion.

Just come to grips that crap happens even when we plan and work hard at things to get them just right.

Someone smart said.." Plan for the rest of your life but live for tomorrow."

We shouldn't stop doing anything just because something might happen.

Howard

 

[CEF1959]

Well, don't give up on the idea. I don't think the concept is so unreasonable. It's the execution of the details that people are pointing out as problematic.

This might work as a good "bug in" location, but rather than trying to become self-sufficient, it might make more sense to put resources into a big cache of food and other supplies, much of it hidden on the property.

But when you start involving strangers.... hmm. Like minded people who know one another can work stuff out, including conflicts about who does what [think of a big family camping trip], but strangers will have their own agendas, and those may not overlap. Maybe develop the group cohesion first, before committing resources?

Then there's the problem of getting there if the shtf. Depending on where you live and where in the gorge this property is, you might be able to walk there in a single night. If it's distant, there are issues, as others have pointed out.

 

[dobanion]

I'm not giving up, I'm just coming to grips that maybe I picked the wrong forum for this discussion, that's all. Try my luck on Collapsenet after it launches.

I don't think it might happen, I'm certain, baring a complete change in the way everyone on the planet behaves. So, I'm not counting on it. It's just a time frame for me. There will come a year where we MUST be self sufficient or starve. I'd like to be self sufficient before that happens.

I was planning on a lot of talking with one another before we all throw several thousand bucks down to co-own a homestead. Make sure we get along well enough to live within 100 yards of one another.

 

[TheHossUSMC]

I am already in the process of forming a SHTF pact with a guy from my church. We are all moving to his place in the country. He was one of those guys that stocked up big time for Y2k and still has a lot of that type of stuff. I personally am stocking up on my own SHTF equipment. Everything from AK47s, sandbags and razorwire to food water storage and purification etc.. If nothing happens oh well I get some cool toys and a bubblegumload of rice to eat over a long period of time. If something does happen well I'm well prepared.
Only thing I really need to work on is how/ if it will be possible to collect my family in Mcminnvile and Portland areas. My brother has an AR and a big tuck so maybe he can get here himself.

 

[Silver Fox]

Hoss-

If you are going this far to create a pact, you might want to consider standardizing your rifles and ammo. I am not going to make any recommendations as this isn't the thread for it and you seem to be pretty fart smeller, I mean a smart feller. Just a suggestion.

SF-

 

[TheHossUSMC]

We both have aks I have 2 extra aks in addition to my personal and we both use 9mm side arms. I'd like to pick up a pair of kel te sub 2000's that run with the same ammo/mags as well for different uses. I also have a nice new piston AR set up for longer range. Still stocking up on ammo till I hit my goals. I also have a few rugers 10/22s set up for small game hunting or small users using. I have thought about picking up a bolt action .308 for really long range defense/hunting. I also have a few shotguns set up for tactical purposes as well. My goal is to have 5 complete sets of gear one shotgunner one Designated marksman and three aks. That way I can outfit people in my fam or maybe a friend that might hook up with me. My only concern is if I have all these set ups how many do I bury just in case type of thing.

 

[rdt]

Great thread really, especially the call cooperative action, dont see that too much and so the conversations like this often come across a little armchair. And we all know how prepping from an armchair works out.

Also, any "sweat equity" I put in could be taken away on the land owners whim. I'd have zero rights to any of it. I could build a homestead and one day he calls and says "you aren't welcome, show up and I'll shoot you."

I really like how strategic and practical PhysicsGuy's suggestion is, but its a fuedal arrangement. Even if the Land*LORD* doesnt kick us off the land, he can start charging taxes ("rent" in money, food, or even "use" of the women of our families) or do anything else he wants. And we will cooperate, starve, or go to war with others who have accepted his food in return for their obedience. Land ownership is power, and post-SHTF, if you can keep it, power will be not starving.

Is it enough to merely survive? Or will we do what we have been called to do and make a better world out of this mess? I dont want to survive to become even more of a serf than i am now. We will almost certainly have to fight regional warlords anyways. Lets not create any on the way.

 

[Silver Fox]

Hoss- Rock on Brother! You got a plan and are moving FWD with it.

Glad to know there are other farmers doing this.

SF-

 

[Gunner3456]

When the Pilgrims came to America they set up a communal effort and found it didn't work so well. What are you going to do to guarentee each "owner" carries his own weight?

jj

That's sure true. Any time it's communal, a few do most of the work and soon tire of it. Not only that, but they ran short of supplies and many starved in a land of plenty.

The Pilgrims had to abandon the concept and go to personal responsibility. Produce or starve. That worked out.

 

[OPAWY]

I think its healthy to look at ways to prepare for the worst. If forming a pact with friends, relatives and nieghbors brings a sense of empowerment, you're much farther along than most people are. There are always going to be problems, glitches, but its important to get into the planning stage, as you all here are doing. No plan will be perfect.

 

[MikeE]

Another good thinker is Dimitry Orlov -google club orlov. He wrote a book called Re-Inventing Collapse. As a Russian-American he made several trips to the former Soviet Union when it was collapsing. His book is about the parallels between the US and the USSR. His position is that the SHTF scenario is a form of denial, that prevents you from thinking clearly about the most likely scenario - an economic collapse (which some would say is already in progress). Orlov is very funny, and very smart. My bet is he is right, at least in the near term. Peak oil doesn't mean no oil, it means the collapse of economic activity into a smaller, poorer scale. It would be good to get other people's take on Orlov.

 

[OPAWY]

While I'm sure Mr Orlov's book is informative, and by its very subject matter, it implores Americans to read and become prepared, Mr Orlov likely has some bias in his thinking.
Russians do not start at the same place as Americans , in their analysis of a collapse process, because Russia has never had a Republic as the US is/has. Therefore it begins as an apples to oranges comparison, regardless of his self identification as Russian-American. If there is a denial within American preparation for SHTF, it may be in underestimating the extent of the collapse. Never the less, whatever Americans can do now to prepare is good, and being vigilant to learn along the way, even better.

 

[snew]

Honestly, If your're expecting a collapse what does it matter how much you owe on your little parcel of land? Just buy whatever you think you'll need and put off paying for it as long as you can. I'm sure you can stretch it out 2 years at least.