Length of pull on adjustable AR stock

[DLS]

I've looked all over the net to get a handle on the LOP range for an AR with a typical (M4 style) adjustable stock. None of the vendors sites give clear numbers. Can someone give me a fairly accurate range?

I'm asking because I have a very slight 12-year old daughter who wants to get into Highpower and Sporting Rifle competition. She need an 11 inch LOP. I have an early Colt AR 15 A2 Sporter II rifle. I'm thinking of getting a 16" barreled A3 upper and putting a collapsible stock on the back end. That should give her a balanced rifle, the right LOP and a decent rear sight (the original Colt "A2" still had A1 style sights) that can easily be fitted with a scope.

Is my thinking correct here? Thanks for any advice and ideas!

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[DirectDrive]

I've looked all over the net to get a handle on the LOP range for an AR with a typical (M4 style) adjustable stock. None of the vendors sites give clear numbers. Can someone give me a fairly accurate range?

I'm asking because I have a very slight 12-year old daughter who wants to get into Highpower and Sporting Rifle competition. She need an 11 inch LOP. I have an early Colt AR 15 A2 Sporter II rifle. I'm thinking of getting a 16" barreled A3 upper and putting a collapsible stock on the back end. That should give her a balanced rifle, the right LOP and a decent rear sight (the original Colt "A2" still had A1 style sights) that can easily be fitted with a scope.

Is my thinking correct here? Thanks for any advice and ideas!

Here are the specs from a Magpul MOE which is their basic buttstock...
MOE Carbine Stock, Mil-Spec

• Weight: 8.0 oz.
• Weight, w/receiver extension: 12.0 oz.
• Length, max: 6.9 in.
• LOP Adjustment Range: 3.3 in.
• LOP, M4 Collapsed: ~10.5 in.
• LOP, M4 Extended: ~13.8 in.

An M4 buttstock should be similar.
The A2 rear sight was an improvement over A1
Don't use an integral carry handle upper if you intend to use an optic.
A4 type flat top upper receivers are much more optic-friendly.

 

[Diamondback]

So following up from DD's post, basically just use an M4 telestock ratcheded down to Full Collapse and slap a recoil pad on it. Mine stays not far from that; then again, I have no usable shoulder to put it to [EDIT: 5'6" and rather stoutly built; I wear a 44-Short suitcoat] so I handle it like a Tommy gun and the stock is really there only as a counterweight.

GL with the lessons, and enjoy the Family Quality Time!

 

[Mygrainman]

I wouldn't mess with the colt if it's still all original and stock... Old Colts are one of the few ARs that are still holding and increasing in value through this flooded market. I'd love to have an early delta HBar.
Were it me i'd build her one from scratch and let her personalize it with the colors and components she likes. It's like dressing up a barbie doll, only better.

 

[Diamondback]

I wouldn't mess with the colt if it's still all original and stock... Old Colts are one of the few ARs that are still holding and increasing in value through this flooded market. I'd love to have an early delta HBar.
Were it me i'd build her one from scratch and let her personalize it with the colors and components she likes. It's like dressing up a barbie doll, only better.

+1. Get your [EDIT: A4] upper, an NWFA Lower--you're a member, so Represent like it! --and go to town. The building will mean more Dad-Daughter time picking parts out and assembling...

Talk about bad timing, CBC Industries had some screaming deals on uppers over the holidays.

 

[DirectDrive]

A4 flat top upper for an optic.
A1, A2, A3 have integral carry handles which make it a little funky for a modern optic.

 

[ma96782]

Ok.....when I shot hi-power matches (in the 80-early 90s) I used my M1a.

I can't tell you the current rules but, back then the collapsible stocks were not acceptable. By now, they should be.

Anyway, my two position collapsible stock runs:

Closed........10"
Open..........13"

The new 6 position stocks should give you a greater range.

My full sized AR15 A2..........13 1/2".
The stock on the full sized AR15 A1 was about 5/8" shorter than the A2.

Aloha, Mark

 

[DLS]

• LOP, M4 Collapsed: ~10.5 in.
• LOP, M4 Extended: ~13.8 in.

This was the info I could not seem to find, thanks it's exactly what I was looking for!

 

[DLS]

Ok.....when I shot hi-power matches (in the 80-early 90s) I used my M1a.

I can't tell you the current rules but, back then the collapsible stocks were not acceptable. By now, they should be.

Anyway, my two position collapsible stock runs:

Closed........10"
Open..........13"

The new 6 position stocks should give you a greater range.

My full sized AR15 A2..........13 1/2".
The stock on the full sized AR15 A1 was about 5/8" shorter than the A2.

Aloha, Mark

Thanks Mark,

The closed and open measurements are exactly what I was looking for!

The rules changed quite a bit in 2012 or so. You can now use a variety of AR platforms as well as an optical sight with a max power of 4.5x.

 

[DLS]

Thanks to everybody for the information and suggestions. I'm probably not going to mess with my Colt (Green Label R6500) as it's a slab side, large receiver pin model, has a pretty lousy trigger and is in pretty much perfect shape.

So my current thinking is to build one out. A3 upper as it has the detachable carry handle and can be used with traditional irons and easily mount an optic. The rear sight in the detachable A3 handle is modified A2 with 1/2 MOA elevation rather than 1 MOA. This is better for competition. It is limited to just over 600 meters range due to the shorter elevation screw but that's fine as Highpower is not shot past 600 yards anyway. She will mostly do reduce courses anyway since she could not handle pit duty.

I'm now thinking about a light profile 16" barrel to better balance the rifle (especially in standing) and to keep the weight down. I would fit the lower with a collapsible stock to get the LOP down to the 11 inches she needs. I know this gives up some velocity and sight radius (when using the irons), but she needs to be able to handle the rifle.

I haven't really looked around much, so am not sure of the available profiles for a shorter barrel but I'm thinking there has to be something out there that will work for her? I'm also thinking there are free float tubes available for the shorter barrel? I'll be doing more research over then next few weeks.

Regarding fixtures, I've see camo pink "plastic" and a rifle with camo pink Cerakote type of finish that was really cool ... it would be fun to do something like that. I've even seen a Hello Kitty themed AR but that is going a bit too far (for me and her)! <GRIN>

Any other thoughts from those of you that are up to speed on the AR platform would be greatly appreciate!

Happy New Year!

 

[Will_White]

Thanks to everybody for the information and suggestions. I'm probably not going to mess with my Colt (Green Label R6500) as it's a slab side, large receiver pin model, has a pretty lousy trigger and is in pretty much perfect shape.

So my current thinking is to build one out. A3 upper as it has the detachable carry handle and can be used with traditional irons and easily mount an optic. The sight in the detachable handles is modified with 1/2 MOA elevation rather than 1 MOA so that is better for competition anyway. It is limited to just over 600 meters range due to the shorter elevation screw but that's fine as Highpower is not shot past 600 yards anyway. She will mostly do reduce courses since she could not handle pit duty.

I'm thinking again about a light profile 16" barrel to better balance the rifle (especially in standing) and to keep the weight down for her with a collapsible stock to get the LOP down to the 11 inches she needs. I know this gives up some velocity and when using irons sight radius, but again she needs to be able to handle the rifle.

I haven't really looked around much, so am not sure of the available profiles for a shorter barrel but I'm thinking there has to be something out there that will work for her? I'm also thinking there are free float tubes available for the shorter barrel?

Regarding fixtures, I've see camo pink "plastic" and along with a camo pink Cerakote type of finish that was really cool ... it would be fun to do something like that. I've even seen a Hello Kitty themed AR but that is going a bit too far! <GRIN>

Any other thoughts from those of you that are up to speed on the AR platform would be greatly appreciate!

Happy New Year!

Might look into a dissipator style 16" or rifle length 18" upper so it has a rifle length fixed front sight for increased sight radius. You'll also want a free float handguard you can get a full furniture set in pink or purple from Hogue with their rubber overmold. I have the purple stock and grips on my Dissipator AR and 1911.

 

[DirectDrive]

White Oak Armament is one of the premier suppliers for NM and Hi-Power equipment.
You might find it useful.
White Oak Armament | Quality Parts for Competitive and Casual Shooters
Also you will notice that it will be either A2 or A4.
So you won't find any A3 receivers there

 

[Mygrainman]

As stated above, it would be advantageous to go with a mid length or rifle length gas system. Not just for sight radius...You can actually get your sights all the way out to the muzzle with a free float handguard with any gas system. Longer gas sys. tend to be more reliable, and some say they can help reduce recoil and muzzle climb, any little advantage there is worth investing in. Look at Balistics Advantage Barrels... I've had 3 and all have been excellent sub moa, and very reasonably priced.

Don't do this:

 

[Diamondback]

As stated above, it would be advantageous to go with a mid length or rifle length gas system. Not just for sight radius...You can actually get your sights all the way out to the muzzle with a free float handguard with any gas system. Longer gas sys. tend to be more reliable, and some say they can help reduce recoil and muzzle climb, any little advantage there is worth investing in. Look at Balistics Advantage Barrels... I've had 3 and all have been excellent sub moa, and very reasonably priced.

Actually, with the right blast deflector or linear comp, you can even use a rifle FF and push the front sight PAST a middy muzzle.

 

[DLS]

Might look into a dissipator style 16" or rifle length 18" upper so it has a rifle length fixed front sight for increased sight radius. You'll also want a free float handguard you can get a full furniture set in pink or purple from Hogue with their rubber overmold. I have the purple stock and grips on my Dissipator AR and 1911.


View attachment 417709

Thanks Will! Sorry for the length of time to post ... it's been busy. The rifle in the picture may be the perfect set up. Is that a 16 0r 18 inch barrel? Did you build that yourself or pick it up from somebody?

I need to check the rules more carefully. I don't think the rear sight would work in the Service Rifle class ... but the rulebook is a little vague. I would be just fine with a detachable carry handle with an A2 sight.

How much interference would that front sight assembly give when using a low mounted low power scope? The rules allow up to 4.5x, and I would pretty much train her to keep it at top power (assuming we put on a variable). While the wobble would be more visible with the top power setting (especially in standing) one can be trained to trust the hold and shoot within the wobble. Do this and you can shoot great scores.

Anyway, I'm betting that at 1x power the front sight would dominate the sight picture, but it should be okay at 4x or 4.5x?

 

[DLS]

White Oak Armament is one of the premier suppliers for NM and Hi-Power equipment.
You might find it useful.
White Oak Armament | Quality Parts for Competitive and Casual Shooters
Also you will notice that it will be either A2 or A4.
So you won't find any A3 receivers there

A3 is the civilian designation for the flattop upper. The factories began using this designation prior to the military using A3 designation for an A2 upper with the A1 (full auto) trigger group. So when the flat top saw use by the military they called it the A4.

I'll just say flat top upper in the future ... it will be easier! <GRIN>

 

[DLS]

As stated above, it would be advantageous to go with a mid length or rifle length gas system. Not just for sight radius...You can actually get your sights all the way out to the muzzle with a free float handguard with any gas system. Longer gas sys. tend to be more reliable, and some say they can help reduce recoil and muzzle climb, any little advantage there is worth investing in. Look at Balistics Advantage Barrels... I've had 3 and all have been excellent sub moa, and very reasonably priced.

Don't do this:
View attachment 417762

I did not know this about gas tube length. Thanks for the info! Yes, I'd need a free float tube to mitigate the sling pressure when in position. I'll look into Ballistic Advantage too!

 

[Will_White]

Thanks Will! Sorry for the length of time to post ... it's been busy. The rifle in the picture may be the perfect set up. Is that a 16 0r 18 inch barrel? Did you build that yourself or pick it up from somebody?

I need to check the rules more carefully. I don't think the rear sight would work in the Service Rifle class ... but the rulebook is a little vague. I would be just fine with a detachable carry handle with an A2 sight.

How much interference would that front sight assembly give when using a low mounted low power scope? The rules allow up to 4.5x, and I would pretty much train her to keep it at top power (assuming we put on a variable). While the wobble would be more visible with the top power setting (especially in standing) one can be trained to trust the hold and shoot within the wobble. Do this and you can shoot great scores.

Anyway, I'm betting that at 1x power the front sight would dominate the sight picture, but it should be okay at 4x or 4.5x?

It is a 16" barrel with a mid-length gas system and a rifle length fixed front sight. It's a PSA upper which I wouldn't recommend for your case because it's only about 2-3 moa but there's other sources for barrels for better accuracy (like ballistic advantage). I haven't used an optic with this upper but with my other carbine the front sight is a fuzzy patch at 1.5x and not noticeable past that.

 

[American123]

So following up from DD's post, basically just use an M4 telestock ratcheded down to Full Collapse and slap a recoil pad on it. Mine stays not far from that; then again, I have no usable shoulder to put it to [EDIT: 5'6" and rather stoutly built; I wear a 44-Short suitcoat] so I handle it like a Tommy gun and the stock is really there only as a counterweight.

GL with the lessons, and enjoy the Family Quality Time!

Limbsaver recoil pad for Magpul stocks. My 130 pound girlfriend has one on her rifle and it keeps shooting enjoyable all day. Very squishy.

 

[DirectDrive]

A3 is the civilian designation for the flattop upper. The factories began using this designation prior to the military using A3 designation for an A2 upper with the A1 (full auto) trigger group. So when the flat top saw use by the military they called it the A4.

I'll just say flat top upper in the future ... it will be easier! <GRIN>

The bad nomenclature was helped along by companies like Bushmaster and I think they still might use it to describe a flat top.
It is slowly dying off.