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Legitmate find or "tourist piece"???

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by ta2er, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. ta2er

    ta2er Oregon Member

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    A family member working in Afghanistan found this in an antique shop and sent it to me as a gift. I know that old guns from that region can be hit-or-miss as far as their legitimacy and many are slapped together from driftwood and old plumbing parts to be sold to tourists, and some of the deep tool marks in this piece make me instantly suspicious. It looks like someone took a grinder to it in some spots.

    On the other hand, it was sent throught the mail......this means it had to be inspected and certified as "pre 1889", went through customs multiple times, and came to me with very official-looking paperwork from the US Government claiming it to be an "Enfield musketoon" produced in 1822. So I'm confused. Anyone have any ideas, or know a good place in the Portland area I could have it inspected and appraised?

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  2. MA Duce

    MA Duce Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Hard to account for the missing patina on the metal work, unless someone burnished it in an attempt to make it look "better" It is obvious the region around the 1822 stamp was burnished, and as you say apparently with a grinder or on a rough wheel. No clue about PDX area experts, but no doubt there is someone here that can help.
     
  3. ta2er

    ta2er Oregon Member

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    That's what I'm crossing my fingers for. It seems weird to me that someone would take a power tool to something they knew was almost 200 years old, but like you said, maybe they just wanted to highlight that "1822" for whatever reason. They really beat the **** out of the trigger guard too - it's been gouged up pretty good. Also seems strange that there would be a date stamped but no manufacturer's name or serial number anywhere that I can see. And there is definitely some sort of patina left on parts of the metal as well as the wood, but I'm sure there are any number of ways this can be "faked" and I don't have the trained eyes to tell the difference.
     
  4. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Could be both. Research Khyber Pass guns. Sometimes the parts are original Enfield and not local copies. Quality is pretty much how you tell if markings are not obviously wrong. I saw some where the N in ENFIELD was backwards. Here is my Martini Henry pistol... :)

    HajipistolMartiniHenry.jpg
     
  5. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    That deffinatly looks like some Pakistani made mock up to sell to nieve, overseas soldiers.
     
  6. sandman1212

    sandman1212 NW Oregon Active Member

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    Having been in Afghanistan, it is not that hard to get weapons certified. All you need is a letter from an "Expert" stating the authenticity of said weapon. I would hope you got lucky with this, but knowing how many of these were for sale when I was there, the liklyhood is slim, but still possible.
     
  7. usmc9705

    usmc9705 lake forest park New Member

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    You have to remember that Afghanistan is a tribal area. these are all over there. i have brought home a few "customs" myself. when you go into the "hills" they are still sporting these. you used to be able to barter or trade these for next to nothing. but the work that they have done it is typical. the british were over there long before us and they seem to have left a few things behind
     
  8. Sawdust

    Sawdust Bull Mountain(Tigard), OR Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    Just posing a point here. Does it seem odd to anyone that a supposed "hand made" weapon from "1822" would be stamped with the date and not hand engraved?
     
  9. ta2er

    ta2er Oregon Member

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    Yeah, the whole thing seems a little fishy. I'll have to find a local expert to be sure, but I'm thinking it's some sort of knock-off. The guy who sent it to me is fairly high up in the food chain, so I'm sure it wouldn't have been to hard for him to push the paperwork through. Still a cool looking piece to hang on my wall though, either way. Thanks for all the good input.
     
  10. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    I don't think that it went through the mail means anything as muzzel loaded guns aren't regulated at the federal level or even most states including new manufacture. The only interest at the federal level probably was just for customs purposes. If I am wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.
    It just doesn't look old but if the price wasn't to high then it is a cool souvenir to display and keep the government letter with it as an example of a bureaucrat taking their job seriously.
     
  11. ta2er

    ta2er Oregon Member

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    Ha ha ha, brilliant idea. I'm not hoping to retire off this thing by any means, but as far as souvenirs and trinkets are concerned this is a pretty cool one I suppose.