latest Sig 320 spontaneously discharge

[TTSX]

Can't say I'd want to own a gun that'll go off when somebody bumps it's holster with their leg. Or will go at all when bumped.

The evidence keeps stacking that this isn't a safe design, even if it's only 1/10k

 

[DirectDrive]

Yup, the first two videos are 5+ years old, back when the trigger VUP was just getting started, so those vids mighta been topical then, but certainly aren't now.

The dude who says it went off in his pocket... what ever happened to his case? Still no word from the court that he won taht one...

[/QUOTE]
I have names for them now, that's "Hands-Up Guy"
Yankee Marshal ripped him a new one, said he lied about the "spring" and SIG's admission to fault then challenged him to come on the channel.

And the last one? Investigation found she had it wrapped up in a sweater in her purse, not in its holster! Gee, who'da thunk that mighta been a wee unsafe?

This one is "Gym Bag Lady"
IIRC, the pistol was fouled by something in her gym bag.
She is currently carrying a P320.

 

[DirectDrive]

Can't say I'd want to own a gun that'll go off when somebody bumps it's holster with their leg. Or will go at all when bumped.

The evidence keeps stacking that this isn't a safe design, even if it's only 1/10k

One could argue that P320 may not be the best choice for police work in the civilian configuration.
If I was head of a dept and P320 was on the table to acquire, it would be M17 or M18.
I'll sound like a d-head if I list all of my other rules.

 

[sobo]

I have names for them now, that's "Hands-Up Guy"
Yankee Marshal ripped him a new one, said he lied about the "spring" and SIG's admission to fault then challenged him to come on the channel.

Interesting... and I'm not surprised...

This one is "Gym Bag Lady"
IIRC, the pistol was fouled by something in her gym bag.
She is currently carrying a P320.

Currently still carrying a P320? Pretty interesting, for "a gun that almost killed her"...

 

[Oro]

Can't say I'd want to own a gun that'll go off when somebody bumps it's holster with their leg. Or will go at all when bumped.

The evidence keeps stacking that this isn't a safe design, even if it's only 1/10k

It doesn't need to even be bumped. Milwaukee PD had three discharges last year before deciding to dump the 320. Two of them were caught on tape - one by bodycam, the other by surveillance cam. Nothing was bumped when the guns discharged.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/milwaukee-police-guns-accidental-discharge-video

There have been enough of these to have plenty on cam at this point. The "doughnut left in the holster" defense by Sig fans is getting insulting to the victims.

 

[Mono1]

Precisely. As I said, the gun won't fire on it's own. However, I never claimed that I am above the possibility of committing an ND (note I do not call it an AD). You seek to conflate two very different scenarios. I would have thought you could have understood the difference...

OK. Well...

So. There.

 

[DirectDrive]

As much as I don't like YM, this video presents some valuable information about this incident.

I watched Yankee Marshal's breakdown and as much as YM is an "in your face" kind of guy, he makes some good points.
My takeaways with the aid of YM's still shots and slo-mo, looks to me like :

21rd mag when it should have been a flush-fitting 17rd mag
Initially, pistol was not seated in holster
Holster top strap was not engaged
Contact with other officer was clearly seen

What specifically fouled the trigger, I can't say.
Hopefully it will come out in the report, but an officer is facing possible disciplinary action and he looks to be in a leadership position...
Stay tuned

 

[DirectDrive]

It doesn't need to even be bumped. Milwaukee PD had three discharges last year before deciding to dump the 320. Two of them were caught on tape - one by bodycam, the other by surveillance cam. Nothing was bumped when the guns discharged.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/milwaukee-police-guns-accidental-discharge-video

There have been enough of these to have plenty on cam at this point. The "doughnut left in the holster" defense by Sig fans is getting insulting to the victims.

Ah, the Milwaukie "Gang of Three"
That one guy getting out of his patrol car has his finger inside the trigger guard when his ND happened.
Busted on video.
The others, I wouldn't waste my time, but I've probably seen them.

When this was first reported, a neighboring dept, equipped with P320s had zero issues.
Verdict : inadequate training st MPD

 

[Certaindeaf]

I wonder what the body count is for glocks?. last I heard they'd spontaneously disassemble when the trigger was pulled.

 

[Xaevian]

I realize Glock went through growing pains as well. But they have been squared away.

Ironic statement of the day...

 

[arakboss]

Did these discharges happen with P250s?

 

[WillametteWill]

I am completely indifferent if the leg hit the gun in the holster. A gun should not fire in that situation. Period; full stop.

Ohhh, the dreaded full stop. Except all the other information that makes it evident that the gun fired when it was pushed into the holster with something possibly hitting the trigger (why guns usually fire).

The Yankee Marshal video posted by @Certaindeaf shows some very interesting kinetics... The gun is riding pretty high in the officer's holster (as noted by @1775usmc ) before he bends down to pick up the perp's legs. Then, as he rises up, his gun is hooked by/jams into the adjacent officer's duty belt and the gun discharges. Immediately after the gun's discharge, one can see that the officer's gun is now lodged much further down into the holster. This implies that the gun was not properly holstered at the beginning of the leg sweep, and by jamming into the adjacent officer's duty belt, if there was something in the trigger guard area of the holster, it could have gotten jacked up with the gun's trigger. Looks like poor gun handling to me, as I have said previously...

So yes, all of this and yet we still hear. "Another Sig fired while minding its own business."

It doesn't need to even be bumped. Milwaukee PD had three discharges last year before deciding to dump the 320. Two of them were caught on tape - one by bodycam, the other by surveillance cam. Nothing was bumped when the guns discharged.

What was said on the video right before the gun went off? Stop resisting. Again, another Sig minding it's own business when it went off, not. And what, about six officers trying to stuff the guy in the back of the car at the same time.

I've pointed this out before, Washington DC police alone averaged one ND per month, for TEN YEARS after switching to Glock. That is just a single department. I guarantee that if social media existed like today when Glocks were introduced the company would have gone bankrupt. How often do we hear about loaded Sigs firing inside of safes, lock boxes, while sitting on a table minding their own business? Never. I keep hearing people SAYING nothing was going on and when you actually watch the video it's like WTF. Like this one.

I'm keeping an open mind but the blind Sig hate and excuses from officers and others is wearing my patience pretty thin. And I don't own any Sigs.

 

[DirectDrive]

Did these discharges happen with P250s?
No, P320

P250 is like a museum piece these days.
You rarely hear about them.

 

[Koda]

how much trouble would a department get in if they admitted a modified duty holster defect, or holster obstruction (ie: negligence)?

todays video shows the gun go off in the holster while the officer was bent over twisting while restraining a resisting suspect and all in a day the PD decided its cheaper to buy the entire PD a completely different gun + training and ammo.

 

[1775usmc]

Ironic statement of the day...

A bit blocky huh? Lol.

 

[RX-79G]

How often do we hear about loaded Sigs firing inside of safes, lock boxes, while sitting on a table minding their own business?

How often do we hear of any model besides Sig P320s firing spontaneously in any setting?

The discussion about this sort of thing always seems to suggest that there is a conspiracy where police officers are doing something wrong and blaming the gun, and that gun is always the same model. Do Sig P320s make cops worse at gun safety than when then had the Glock or S&W that it replaced? Is there an undertone of resentment against Sig that would cause people to fabricate stories about them, but this misfortune never happened to S&W (who people do hate).


I just don't get what causes you to write these incidents off as coincidence or falsehoods.

 

[RX-79G]

how much trouble would a department get in if they admitted a modified duty holster defect, or holster obstruction (ie: negligence)?

If no one was hurt? None.

 

[Koda]

I just don't get what causes you to write these incidents off as coincidence or falsehoods.

I havent seen any solid evidence any of these incidences it was the gun alone. Todays vid is the closest only in that it appears (to me) to be in the holster but nothing investigating a holster obstruction or mod.

Theres been dozens more lawsuits against Glock for NDs all blaming the gun but nobodys being critical of Glocks design. I dont see how a Sig could AD on its own with internal safety features.

I guess nows a good time to find and share a vid or article on how the P320 safety system works. To be fair...

 

[DirectDrive]

How often do we hear of any model besides Sig P320s firing spontaneously in any setting?

The discussion about this sort of thing always seems to suggest that there is a conspiracy where police officers are doing something wrong and blaming the gun, and that gun is always the same model. Do Sig P320s make cops worse at gun safety than when then had the Glock or S&W that it replaced? Is there an undertone of resentment against Sig that would cause people to fabricate stories about them, but this misfortune never happened to S&W (who people do hate).


I just don't get what causes you to write these incidents off as coincidence or falsehoods.

Evidence, thus far.
Glock and M&P have both had their time "in the barrel"

 

[DirectDrive]

If no one was hurt? None.

Doesn't take much imagination for reprimand or even dismissal to be on the table.