just a thought ..

[retiredgal]

Your wrong and here is why.

#1- "Stronger Background Checks". We already have BG checks through NICS, which gets it's info from local, county, state and federal sources. Anyone of which can say,"no" you can not buy a firearm.

#2- "Safety / Training Courses". They have been offered for free to kids at schools and adults alike through many programs, but this goes against the liberal agenda, so they kill these programs.

#3- "All sells private or not going through a FFL (i.e. background checks)". These laws are up to the state the transaction takes place in and they have proved to be highly ineffective, since criminals, tend to use stolen firearms, not ones they purchase that can be linked right back to them.

#4- "Home Storage Requirements" This is another thing that simply does not work. Criminals make a living from stealing things like safes,firearms with trigger locks, etc.... since they know a safe contains something of value. You can buy a $5000.00 safe and i could have the contents out in 15 minutes, with common tools anyone can buy and i am not a safecracker, just a guy that can use tools.

And last of all- "Good workable ideas and I add we need to have a good outpatient mental health system for others deemed dangerous or unstable and a means for intervention other than waiting for them to do something illegal as is the case now often , for the police to then intervene".- The problem with this, is that people will not go this route, knowing the mental health system will prevent them from ever getting a firearm.

Say a mom or dad has a child killed in an auto accident. The mother then suffers from severe depression and maybe is feeling a bit suicidal, due to her loss.

She goes to the DR, who prescribes medication and counselling (through a therapist or psychiatrist) then these records are given to the Government.

This greif stricken mom is now unable to purchase a firearm forever, even when she has coped with her greif and is no longer any kind of theat to anyone, including herself.


M67

Thanks for your intelligent and thoughtful reply . You make some good points for consideration.

Basically, I am inclined to agree with you on all these things, but we must be willing to compromise today given the enraged political climate from the anti gunners and the hyped media. MY ideas and others ideas are attempts to placate the public's outrage and fear about guns and violence, so they feel they have done something to make everyone safer, even if they haven't in reality. Small changes versus big drastic changes are in the making as we speak.

Time for all gun owners to get vocal with their elected officials fast !

Try to put the brakes on the extremist like Feinstien .

 

[moose]

we must be willing to compromise today given the enraged political climate from the anti gunners and the hyped media.

No. And I am tempted to use a word that ends up to be bubblegummed out.

I see no reason to compromise. What is happening now is an emotional response and appeal of trying to solve A by doing B. Meaningless and we're all going to be worse off from any of it. They admit themselves time is their enemy, as people move on to other things to get all emotional about.

 

[pry]

#4- "Home Storage Requirements" This is another thing that simply does not work. Criminals make a living from stealing things like safes,firearms with trigger locks, etc.... since they know a safe contains something of value. You can buy a $5000.00 safe and i could have the contents out in 15 minutes, with common tools anyone can buy and i am not a safecracker, just a guy that can use tools.

I paid a lot less than $5k for my safe, and I guarantee you could not open it in 15 minutes.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Raising the cost of background checks would amount to no more then a regressive tax. The low income have as much right to self defense (with probably more of a need) as anyone.

 

[gehrheart]

I must be a bit different.
abolish the National Firearms Act ("NFA"), of 1934
abolish the Gun Control Act of 1968
abolish the one in 1986 (corrected)
Abolish the need for CCW,CWP,CPW..ect..

background checks amount to nothing to stop a criminal.

In Washington state, gun safes are not subject to sales tax. I would further push that the gun safe purchase be a deduction on federal tax.
I would allow all firearms training to be a full deduction from your federal tax.

I would remove laws for gun free zones and its shown over and over they do not work.

I would promote (not mandatory) promote on a federal level the desire that if you own a firearm to get training. (tax incentive is a start)
.. Including allowing a full deduction of cost of one personal protection firearm on personal federal tax if it's in conjunction with training.
I.E. bought an XD45 and took a safety course in the same year, then both costs would be a deduction from your federal tax.
Promote the need for LEO to administer these classes (not control and not be the sole source, rather just be an option open to people). This would allow gun owners to work with LEO as such bringing back the interaction between LEO and civilians that we have long ago lost.

Enforce the 2nd.. enforce the "shall not be infringed"!!!!!!!!!!

None of this would be mandatory, let people make their own decisions, just allow for incentives if they do. The training wouldn't be free up front, but in a way, deduction from your tax it would work out as such without any expense from gubmit.

But I like Liberty.
I like freedom.
I truly find it sad that many Gun owners are willing to give up some of their rights so easily.. it makes me sick when I read of people.. People who own guns! That will agree to give up some to keep some. There is NO give. We have the right given forth by our forefathers of this great republic and there is NOTHING TO GIVE!

But it seems I am mostly alone in this thought..

 

[pry]

yeah

 

[moose]

I must be a bit different.
abolish the National Firearms Act ("NFA"), of 1934
abolish the Gun Control Act of 1968
abolish the one in 1984 FOPA of 1986.
Abolish the need for CCW,CWP,CPW..ect..

[...]

But I like Liberty.
I like freedom.
I truly find it sad that many Gun owners are willing to give up some of their rights so easily.. it makes me sick when I read of people.. People who own guns! That will agree to give up some to keep some. There is NO give. We have the right given forth by our forefathers of this great republic and there is NOTHING TO GIVE!

But it seems I am mostly alone in this thought..

No, you are not. I say roll it all back including the NFA of '34.

If they want compromise, I'm willing to give up my right to naval guns over 10 inches in diameter. Nothing else though.

 

[gehrheart]

opps.. thanks for the corection on the date. Have Orwellian thoughts on my mind.

 

[The Duck]

No. And I am tempted to use a word that ends up to be bubblegummed out.

I see no reason to compromise. What is happening now is an emotional response and appeal of trying to solve A by doing B. Meaningless and we're all going to be worse off from any of it. They admit themselves time is their enemy, as people move on to other things to get all emotional about.

What happens to an rigid/rusty old nut when a person is determined to remove it... It breaks...

If there is a ban today or in 20 years; it will be due to thought process like yours.

There is a flaw in our process and any logical person can see it. I am not a policy maker or regulation writer. I do however believe that by making many small steps, be it any direction, we may solve a larger issue. There is no simple solution: Either being a AWB or erasing all gun laws!

The issue we are looking at will only be solved over time with small steps; each one will take only a percentage of the issue away.

1. FFL Sells: Down the road, it will eventually allow the flow of firearms be tracked and possible shut down into the hands of the criminals. It is not 100%, but a timely idea.

2. Training: We have it for concealed, but nothing for Joe Smith buying a handgun at X-Gun-Shop and then shooting his son in the passenger seat, because he thought it was unloaded...

3. Secured Storage: Simple; Just put your gun in a approved storage device. No government inspections outside of manufacturing plant. Just buy approved storage with redundant locking devices; if your gun is stolen, better make sure that case was stolen as well or it was busted opened?

4. Stronger Background Checks: I have no idea what the state police looks at, but it takes about 30 seconds over the phone. Is this NCIS or what? Have a nation wide system which everyone can pull from. Maybe the first background check is extensive (i.e. $50 and it takes a month or so and after that it is just a checkup, maybe good for 4 years at a time)

Like I said, I am just a random guy here who sees the writing on the wall. If we do not as a collective move forward, we will be pushed forward into a BAN!

So be rigid all you want, and when the AWB comes, I will blame it on YOU and not the criminals...


So you know: Born and raised on a farm, owned firearms my entire life, spent 10 years in the military and now LE... I do my part and earned the right to speak my mind, I fought for that right and not just born into entitlement...

 

[PiratePast40]

The idea of a "firearms card" is a reality in Illinois. You must possess a Firearms Owner Identification Card (FOID) to buy ammo or a gun. It works great and has eliminated crimes committed with guns - just look at Chicago!

So if we "compromise" and allow a law like this, aren't we just joining in with the feel good crowd?

 

[The Courier]

i'm liking the feedback so far, as i stated this is a complex issue but we need solutions to this problem, so rather argue against some elses idea share one of your own and weigh out the pros/cons. heres another one for thought pass out a petition through this site that says people of the NW will not tolerate any new gun laws. even if half the members of this site signed the petition and maybe a few of their friends you would have a very large voice to be heard. if any one here can type something up and start passing it around i'll sign it, lets stop these morons from taking and restricting our guns.

 

[gehrheart]

Could someone tell me what we are trying to fix??!!

Yes there is gun crime... ALWAYS HAVE BEEN!

Giving up our rights and freedoms because people hurt and kill other people??
Been going on since the beginning of our time, and we are not going to stop it with gun control. Not even slow it down.. not even affect it.

There is all this talk about having to do something about the problem. Define the problem, that seems to be missing. All I hear over and over from both sides is we need to fix the problem without a clear definition of that said problem. Just more regurgitated crap spewed from the MSM given forth without any real definition.
The only problem I see is that some crazy people feel the need because they are alone/depressed/sad/loony/lost/forgotten/picked-on whatever feel they need some way to be big/well know/talked about/ go down in history.. and they find a way to do that good or bad.
The people who do these shooting would never be known.. Now the MSM has created a big place in history for them, now they are talked about.. Now they are well know!!

How does this have anything to do with gun?
so what are we trying to fix with gun control?

create a larger Bubblegum nanny state to feel "safer"?
allowing some smuck that sits behind a desk that has never known you decide if you are able and good enough to own a gun??

Got news!! this will not stop people from killing people. This will not stop people from doing horrible acts of violence towards another so that they can go down into history!

OUR problem is the glorification MSM gives these people. We have become a society of "reality crap TV" and what better ratings for that then the glorification of these events. Drilled into our heads every night (well not me I gave the boob tube a kick out the door a long time ago, mind has been doing great ever since). Making these people as popular as kardasions,tilla,hilton ect..
then some angry loony, lonely beat up mental case is thinking that I to could have that!! I will have to do something even greater!! And so again the perverse nature of these process continues down a darker and darker path till we are here where we are at now.

can someone tell me how this has anything to do with guns?

The worst school mass killing in our history did not involve a single gun. Homemade bomb.

We are in an age of information. Take the guns. In a single search inquiry have everything I need to download, build and have a working SMG. ( have it build from ACE hardware parts and be just as deadly if not more than a AR15 in a small room of people)
In a few moments of internet search I have all the information to build a very capable bomb.
Gun control going to stop that?
High cap "clip" ban going to stop that?

What is the problem we are trying to fix?

want to be safer? Its a fallacy. You are only as safe as you make YOURELF!
All this talk about giving up a little here
letting them have a bit there.
all to "fix" something.
I'm not even sure to many know exactly what we are "fixing" Just repeated crap from the TV....

 

[kibs45]

Why is it assumed that a compromise has to only go their (anti-gun) direction. In a perfect world we would start repealing all this garbage and not give anything up. However, why don't we at least start inching it back our direction?

Example:
abolish the National Firearms Act ("NFA"), of 1934
abolish the Gun Control Act of 1968
abolish the one in 1986
Abolish the need for CCW,CWP,CPW..ect..

We consent to background check card mandatory for new purchases? We also allow for a more standard background check information collection. Currently some states do not release all information. Mind you, not a card for every transaction, not a check for every purchase, or any kind of registration. But rather what some have suggested here of a card saying a background check was run in the last twelve months etc... Private sales are a different matter, because you can legislate all you want, but there is literally zero you can do to enforce anything before something bad has happened...

Just an idea, I don't like it per say, but in my mind it moves stuff back our direction, and would be a true compromise (every side gives a little)

 

[gehrheart]

A card???


Because a permission slip goes against "shall not be infringed"

I personaly do not accept permission for a right!

 

[pry]

yeah a card, instead of constant background checks, would save us money and make purchases faster,easier,and discreet. A step in the right direction.

 

[kibs45]

A card???


Because a permission slip goes against "shall not be infringed"

I personaly do not accept permission for a right!

Remember I said I wasn't thrilled with the idea but a couple of points:

1: That it would be more discreet than the system currently in place. The card says I am ELIGIBLE to purchase new firearms, that is all. It would do the exact same thing as the current system but no longer be associated with specific purchases.

2: Eliminate all the NFA defacto registration/fees.

3: It could potentially be used to allow us a national conceal carry license...

Remember, the system we have in place is already a permission slip. This would LOOSEN the EXISTING restrictions...

Remember, I also said I would prefer to just get rid of it all... But in the mean time I will take what I can get...

 

[beavertonbuck]

What happens to an rigid/rusty old nut when a person is determined to remove it... It breaks...

If there is a ban today or in 20 years; it will be due to thought process like yours.

There is a flaw in our process and any logical person can see it. I am not a policy maker or regulation writer. I do however believe that by making many small steps, be it any direction, we may solve a larger issue. There is no simple solution: Either being a AWB or erasing all gun laws!

The issue we are looking at will only be solved over time with small steps; each one will take only a percentage of the issue away.

1. FFL Sells: Down the road, it will eventually allow the flow of firearms be tracked and possible shut down into the hands of the criminals. It is not 100%, but a timely idea.

2. Training: We have it for concealed, but nothing for Joe Smith buying a handgun at X-Gun-Shop and then shooting his son in the passenger seat, because he thought it was unloaded...

3. Secured Storage: Simple; Just put your gun in a approved storage device. No government inspections outside of manufacturing plant. Just buy approved storage with redundant locking devices; if your gun is stolen, better make sure that case was stolen as well or it was busted opened?

4. Stronger Background Checks: I have no idea what the state police looks at, but it takes about 30 seconds over the phone. Is this NCIS or what? Have a nation wide system which everyone can pull from. Maybe the first background check is extensive (i.e. $50 and it takes a month or so and after that it is just a checkup, maybe good for 4 years at a time)

Like I said, I am just a random guy here who sees the writing on the wall. If we do not as a collective move forward, we will be pushed forward into a BAN!

So be rigid all you want, and when the AWB comes, I will blame it on YOU and not the criminals...


So you know: Born and raised on a farm, owned firearms my entire life, spent 10 years in the military and now LE... I do my part and earned the right to speak my mind, I fought for that right and not just born into entitlement...

1. You are talking registration. So the government has a piece of paper that says I own such and such. How exactly does not prevent a crime? It might help if the gun is left at the scene but otherwise doesn't do squat. Also people who are not inclined to become crimanals will go thru an FFL but criminals won't bother. They will either sell anyway and take the risk or they will steal guns, which again makes this useless.

2. The training aspect from a practical point makes senses but to make it a government requirement in nonsensical. If I understand you correctly you are looking at training just to own a firearm. One training can be an expensive that poor people might not be able to swing. They have just as much a right to defend themselves as I do. Secondly there is a reason that we don't have reading test or poll taxes anyone when people vote. You can't require a certain amount of knowlege or skill from a citizen before they can exercise their constitutional rights.

3. Why? Theft occurs all the time when guns are secured. Should my wife not be able to defend herself when I am not home. Again I tend to agree from a practical point that guns should be secured; however, there is one gun in my house that can't be reached by my kids but I can easily grab if I need something other than my handgun.

4. So you don't have an idea of what they look for but you advocate for stronger background checks. So here you go:

Sections 922(g) and (n) of the Gun Control Act[3]​ prohibits certain persons from shipping or transporting any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, or receiving any firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possessing any firearm in or affecting commerce. These prohibitions apply to any person who:[1]​

• Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
• Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
• Is a fugitive from justice
• Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
• Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution
• Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States
• Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions
• Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship
• Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner
• Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

In addition to local, state, tribal, and federal agencies voluntarily contributing information to the NICS Index, the NICS Section receives telephone calls from mental health institutions, psychiatrists, police departments, and family members requesting placement of individuals into the NICS Index. Frequently, these are emergency situations and require immediate attention. Any documentation justifying a valid entry into the NICS Index must be available to the originating agencies.[1]​

Now note that the I in NICS stands for Instant. I am sure that a woman that flees an abusive boyfriend and gets told by the gun store that she has to wait a month before she can pick up her firearm will appreciate this law. This last point would be terrible from a policy perspective.

If we get an AWB it is going to be people like YOU that can't see that government wants to push the fence 100' onto our property and then compromise to 50'. I'm going to tell you that they will be the next week pushing for 100' again.

If we truly wanted to prevent gun homicides I believe that there are a few laws that would go a long way without impeding our constitutional rights.

1. The #1 factor I believe causes gun homicides is the War on Drugs. By declaring that the government has the right to regulate what you put in your body we have created a highly profitable black market. Such a market where the rules are enforced by guns and violence. Legalizing drugs would allow us to break the backs of gangs by removing their source of income we would see a significant drop in homicides.

2. As a group we have to have an honest conversation about what we do with loved ones that are either prohibited persons or have mental health issues. This is an emotional issue which no amount of legislation is going to address. If you have someone in your home that is prohibited or has mental health issues you need to address how you will store your weapons to restrict access. I believe that this is best accomplished thru a public awareness program thru the NRA or SAF.

3. I would suggest that anyone that is convicted of any death greater than manslaughter receive an automatic sentence of LWPOP. The NY shooter was convicted of beating his grandmother to death with a hammer and only got 17 years. There was a story last night on KATU of a convicted murder who after getting out of the jail the 1st time murdered his girlfriend and then pled to 8 years. People who murder someone should never have the opportunity to harm society again.

What we need in this country is to rediscover the fact that a gun is a piece of wood, metal, plastic that has no conscious of its own. There was a time when high school rifle teams were common. I remember having my hunting safety class on the baseball field and having my shotgun/rifle in my truck when I went to school. The fact that guns have been around us all along, that guns are more prevalent in rural areas versus urban areas is proof that guns don't cause violence. Rather than going down the road of compromise which isn't going to solve a damn thing I am going to fight irrational emotional responses with facts.

Rather than screaming like a loon (eg Alex Jones) or running for hills, stand your ground. Be rational and be honest. We are ones that are right here, we have history and facts on our side. We having been winning for a long time and now gun control groups see their chance. If we can win this fight then they are done. If they have any sort of win, any sort of compromise they are going to be rejuvenated and raising money that has been hard to get in recent years.

 

[moose]

I will blame it on YOU

I LOL'ed.

My wife says the same thing and I dont understand her logic either.

 

[M67]

I paid a lot less than $5k for my safe, and I guarantee you could not open it in 15 minutes.

If you think i could not open your safe, check this out, it might change your mind.

Eastwood Company - YouTube

 

[oknow]

I don't think you need to be so offensive and negative name calling when you think someone else's constructive opinion is not up to your lofty standards.

What do you suggest ?

How about lets all treat each other civilly or not post at all ?

we have GONE PAST THE TIME FOR CIVILITY, we don't need garbage like this, civility is the reason we have lost so many rights already