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just a thought ..

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by The Courier, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. The Courier

    The Courier Newberg, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    With whats happened recently its seems the only solution the public wants is a AWB or a high capacity magazine ban. This is useless in my opinion, if i recall correctly the oklahoma city bombing was accomplished using easy to obtain chemicals. Was a ban preposed for diesel and fertilzer? do not blame the tool blame the user... The simplest idea i can come up with would be to raise the background check cost up and use extra funding towards investigating stolen weapons, adding security to schools, and more thorough research on people trying to buy weapons. there are no easy answers for such a complicated situation but simply making the law abiding citizens defenseless is definitely not the answer. agree or disagree?
     
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  2. The Duck

    The Duck Oregon Active Member

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    I do believe in;

    1. Stronger Background Checks
    2. Safety / Training Courses (some sort)
    3. All sells private or not going through a FFL (i.e. background checks)
    4. Home Storage Requirements

    No one solution is going to solve a problem, but many small steps will move in the right direction. A ban is NOT a solution. Education, prevention and pro-activeness will move everyone into the direction we need to go, NOT a knee jerk AWB...

    As responsible gun owners we can made a positive difference and I strongly believe that only Tin-Hat's will try to fight items which only protect and remove loop holes which we all see.
     
  3. retiredgal

    retiredgal Post Falls, Idaho Active Member

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    Good workable ideas and I add we need to have a good outpatient mental health system for others deemed dangerous or unstable and a means for intervention other than waiting for them to do something illegal as is the case now often , for the police to then intervene .

    Better reporting requirements to the data base of such people .

    My 2 cents !
     
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  4. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    how the heck does any of that stop any crime
    1 Stronger Background Checks
    a background check is a background check unless you want the position mom and dad were in when you were conceived
    2 Safety / Training Courses (some sort)
    there already is that in place
    3 All sells private or not going through a FFL (i.e. background checks)
    and criminals will obey this law (stupid)
    4. Home Storage Requirements
    like this LiveLeak.com - California Approved Handgun Safe (right)
    go back to your brady bunch and sell your crap there
     
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  5. receo

    receo Sandy, Oregon Active Member

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    With your plan I would be forced to go through a ffl to give my guns to my boys. No like, besides how would this make anyone safer?

    If you want safer push for a tax deduction on gun safes. It would make it harder for kids and criminals to get there hands on them.

    Modified for auto spell
     
  6. retiredgal

    retiredgal Post Falls, Idaho Active Member

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    I don't think you need to be so offensive and negative name calling when you think someone else's constructive opinion is not up to your lofty standards.

    What do you suggest ?

    How about lets all treat each other civilly or not post at all ?
     
  7. The Courier

    The Courier Newberg, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    all precautions mentioned above will not stop criminals. it sucks that there are people out there using items that i consider a hobby for mass murder and chaos. but by doing things like strengthening background checks it shows that people that own firearms want these outrageous acts of violence to decrease.
     
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  8. BoonDocks36

    BoonDocks36 Oregon, in the boondocks Christian. Conservative. Male.

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    DUPLICATE POST, NEW KEY BOARD!!!!

    philip in the Boondocks
     
  9. BoonDocks36

    BoonDocks36 Oregon, in the boondocks Christian. Conservative. Male.

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    I believe we should CUT 60 - 80 % of the existing gun laws out... they Only affect the Law Abiding Citizen. Duh.

    Name the last legal Class III used in a crime... you come up short hairs to do so, it does NOT help to create more laws.

    Study the case that created the NFA of `34 and you will see there as not even a proper trial, as the Judge wanted to the Lawyers to meet again, but the defense lawyer did not hear about it, so the Prosecuting Attorney got his wishes...

    So, all us Law Keepers, have "legal weapons" & any criminal will still cut off the bbl to make a saweed off shotgun... to use in a crime, of course!

    And PLEASE keep the Mental Health advocates away from gun law writing, they will go phobic with their new Power!

    Is a mass Murder by gun done by Sane People? no, but until they can PROOVE with zero doubt that a certain persons "thinking" WILL lead to mass killing... they will do the opposite: "Oh, you want to OWN a GUN"? you must be crazy!

    Those are my own considerations on Mental Health providers, and I know several... only One is Pro-Gun, and I am sure that is a "secret" kept in his closet!

    philip in the Boondocks
     
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  10. The Courier

    The Courier Newberg, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    all precautions mentioned above will not stop criminals. it sucks that there are people out there using items that i consider a hobby for mass murder and chaos. but by doing things like strengthening background checks it shows that people that own firearms want these outrageous acts of violence to decrease.
     
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  11. The Courier

    The Courier Newberg, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    training on firearms should be available and free of cost isnt that why we pay taxes? as far as private selling i would hate to have to always have to pay a fee every time i transfer a gun, but it seems logical to me after all you have to register a vehicle when you purchase it which can be even more dangerous if you are behind the wheel and not paying attention.... in my opinion.
     
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  12. retiredgal

    retiredgal Post Falls, Idaho Active Member

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    Thank you men for some valid and good counter debate points and I respect that myself. :thumbup::thumbup:

    I don't have all the answers, I think it is more a mental health and upbringing issue than a gun control issue, but given the climate today, changes will come, ready or not . I don't need more rules and training, but will do what the law says I have to do .:huh:

    Just don't even talk about taking our guns that we have lawfully bought and paid for up until now . That is when I will get upset !!!:angry:
     
  13. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Glad it's only a thought!
     
  14. The Courier

    The Courier Newberg, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    are more laws needed i think not, do our taxes need to go towards more FREE training and safe handling procedures of firearms yes. but there are people that dont take notice to the dangers of driving cars and shooting guns, both are potentially dangerous that is why i prefer to go to the range alone or with close friends.
     
  15. skippythedog

    skippythedog Seattle Member

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    Just tonight, I picked up new gun at Outdoor Emporium (Sportco) in Seattle. They had the computer terminals set up to enter your data for the background form.....Why can't these just be offered to anyone for a fee? Place them in stores, WSDL offices, other locations to be determined etc. You get a background check for $10 bucks (still a moneymaker for the Feds), which is good for say....3 months or so, maybe 6 months. Buyer and sellers have to have them. The insurance companies are the ones that will put the clamps on and enforce the storage requirements. Won't solve all the problems but will do a lot to re-gain public trust.
     
  16. pry

    pry pdx Member

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    Why not just make a cpl\ccw permit required for ftf sales. Or for states that don't allow or people who don't want a cpl they could just have a certificate to purchase firearms, and it could expire every few years or something. I think its a good idea to make it harder for felons to buy guns, but constant background checks for every purchase is a way to monitor what you are buying and what you have. This way nobody knows what you have just that you are registered to buy.

    Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
     
  17. Uberdillo

    Uberdillo Oregon Active Member

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    The idea of more safety training has been a big thing among myself and close friends recently. My more liberal friends of course want more required safety standards, probably like the DMV. I back-pedal from that pretty fast because I can't see an elegant solution that doesn't create another unnecessary economic barrier to self-defense and 2nd amendment rights.

    But...there's this place where we send our kids off to learn things about their letters, numbers, and about the world past and present. I'm blanking at the moment: why the hell aren't we teaching basic gun safety in school again?
     
  18. receo

    receo Sandy, Oregon Active Member

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    How would any of these suggestions have stopped Columbine,Clackamas, Sandy Hook, Taft? All of those bastards stole the guns.

    We keep our guns because we know there are bad people among us, yet we leave our guns in the closet, under the bed and on the nightstand. Yeah they are pricks for breaking into our homes while we're at work but do we have to make it so easy for the crooks to arm themselves. Accountability starts with the gun owner. Rant over
     
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  19. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

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    Your wrong and here is why.

    #1- "Stronger Background Checks". We already have BG checks through NICS, which gets it's info from local, county, state and federal sources. Anyone of which can say,"no" you can not buy a firearm.

    #2- "Safety / Training Courses". They have been offered for free to kids at schools and adults alike through many programs, but this goes against the liberal agenda, so they kill these programs.

    #3- "All sells private or not going through a FFL (i.e. background checks)". These laws are up to the state the transaction takes place in and they have proved to be highly ineffective, since criminals, tend to use stolen firearms, not ones they purchase that can be linked right back to them.

    #4- "Home Storage Requirements" This is another thing that simply does not work. Criminals make a living from stealing things like safes,firearms with trigger locks, etc.... since they know a safe contains something of value. You can buy a $5000.00 safe and i could have the contents out in 15 minutes, with common tools anyone can buy and i am not a safecracker, just a guy that can use tools.

    And last of all- "Good workable ideas and I add we need to have a good outpatient mental health system for others deemed dangerous or unstable and a means for intervention other than waiting for them to do something illegal as is the case now often , for the police to then intervene".- The problem with this, is that people will not go this route, knowing the mental health system will prevent them from ever getting a firearm.

    Say a mom or dad has a child killed in an auto accident. The mother then suffers from severe depression and maybe is feeling a bit suicidal, due to her loss.

    She goes to the DR, who prescribes medication and counselling (through a therapist or psychiatrist) then these records are given to the Government.

    This greif stricken mom is now unable to purchase a firearm forever, even when she has coped with her greif and is no longer any kind of theat to anyone, including herself.


    M67
     
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  20. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    For those that are advocating mandatory "safe storage," I would ask who determines that?
    And how does one go about getting it verified?

    Unless you're buying a new/used gun, how would they know you need or have a "safe storage" device?
    Are you advocating a permitting scheme that requires a safe to get? Or is this just an answer on the 4473?
    Are you willing to surrender a portion of your 4th Amendment rights so that LEOs can come in your house and inspect your safe to verify that it meets standards?
    And if they come to inspect it and find something else they don't like in your house, what then?
    And as others have asked, what if you have no kids? What then, are you exempt? And how would they know? Do we get the public school system involved so they're verified?
    Or do we use the IRS to screen your tax returns for dependents?

    Just how many rights are we supposed too give up to keep the 2ndA? The 4thA? How many more?

    Now, the "safety course." How often? Who administers? How is it verified? Are records permanently kept?
    Again, isn't this just another de-facto permit/owner registration scheme? It sure sounds like one from where I sit.
    And does it have to be a federally approved class? Or can the state police/county sheriff oversee the program?

    Please explain how this is NOT a permitting scheme, as it sure sounds like what is required for a carry permit.
    And if it passed, would we abolish the carry permit(s) and allow open/concealed carry in all states?

    Stronger background checks.
    Who administers that one? What are the disqualifiers?
    If you were ordered by a judge to go to counseling during a divorce/custody battle, for the sake of your kids' adjustment period, does that disqualify you? You were seeing a psychologist after all,...
    If you were on anti-depressants for a year, 5 years ago, is that a dis-qualifier?
    Just how far up your digestive tract are you willing to let the dotgov climb so you can EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS?!?

    Oh, and you folks that want subsidies and tax breaks from the dotgov so you can own a gun?
    Don't get me started, as that one CAN'T end well. That isn't a "slippery slope," that's a cliff with a rocky landing at the bottom.

    The 2ndA recognizes an unalienable RIGHT laid down in our founding documents. It is not a privilege. Nor is it subject to popular opinion, unless a Constitutional Convention is called for to hear arguments for it's repeal.

    There are many ways for the government to abrogate your rights, as spelled out by the founders.
    Please don't give them any more traction, or ideas from which to choose the "best" way to turn you into a serf.

    Yes, owning and using a gun requires responsibility, as do many of our rights.
    But this country was founded on the ideal that the citizen was capable of bearing those responsibilities, in exchange for the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Make no mistake people, the government won't take your responsibilities for you, and leave you with your rights. It doesn't work that way because it CAN'T.

    Stand up and tell your/our government to stay out of your business, and go back to doing the job they were hired to do.

    We heard a lot about the 99% vs the 1% over the last few years, and many here believed in the cause of the 99%.
    Well guess what? With most of these schemes, you are asking the government to put onerous obligations on the 99%, in their misguided efforts to stop less than 1% of the crimes committed in this country.
    Why?
    And to what end?
    And when you are done asking yourself those questions, ask your government representative.