Interfering with Public Transportation - PDX

[RicInOR]

<broken link removed>

A TriMet bus driver overheard a passenger talking about being armed and called the police. The man had no gun but was arrested anyway.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/03/man_claims_to_have_loaded_and.html


http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.116

http://trimet.org/pdfs/code/TriMet_Code_Chapter_28.pdf

D. Prohibited Risks to Transit System Security and Order

(2) Weapons: No person, except a peace officer, shall bring or carry aboard a District Vehicle
any firearm, knife (except a folding knife with a blade less than 3 ½ inches in length), or any
other instrument, article, device, material or substance specifically designed for, or attempted
to be used to, inflict or cause bodily harm to another, except in accordance with administrative
rules as may be promulgated by the General Manager or otherwise provided by law. Where
possession of such weapons cannot be prohibited by law, a person in possession of a weapon
may not display or carry the weapon in a manner which is likely to result in fear or alarm by
other persons or District employees.

(6) Harassment and Intimidation

(a) While on a District platform or Vehicle, no person shall engage in harassment or
intimidation through a course of conduct, including violent, threatening or disruptive
behavior or conduct intended and likely to provoke a violent response, which places
another person in reasonable fear of imminent physical harm, including, but not
limited to, following such person around or about the Vehicle or platform, or by
preventing or delaying the movement or departure of such person through coercion or
intimidation; or

(b) While on a District Vehicle, no person shall continue a course of conduct that may
reasonably be expected to result in fear, alarm, or serious offense to other passengers
or District personnel, after having received a lawful directive to cease such conduct or
depart the Vehicle, by a District employee or a peace officer.

Read More

 

[GrpCapMandrake]

Dude looks like a winner.

 

[Stomper]

WTH would you even discuss what your are carrying (if you WERE carrying)?

 

[Mark W.]

There's your sign

 

[ocarolan]

WTH would you even discuss what your are carrying (if you WERE carrying)?

 

[Stomper]

True enough

 

[chemist]

My pistol is not designed to inflict bodily harm. Its purpose is to project metal slugs at high velocity, and facing the possibility of such is intended to deter criminals and thus prevent bodily harm.

Besides, the buses are public, so state preemption applies.

 

[Darknight]

(2) Weapons: No person, except a peace officer, shall bring or carry aboard a District Vehicle any firearm, knife (except a folding knife with a blade less than 3 ½ inches in length), or any other instrument, article, device, material or substance specifically designed for, or attempted to be used to, inflict or cause bodily harm to another, except in accordance with administrative rules as may be promulgated by the General Manager or otherwise provided by law. Where possession of such weapons cannot be prohibited by law, a person in possession of a weapon may not display or carry the weapon in a manner which is likely to result in fear or alarm by other persons or District employees.


You left off part of it, so I fixed it. Besides, Portlandias rules do not override state law. Too, a reasonable person would need to be in fear by your actions; and carrying a firearm, even open carry with a permit is not grounds in itself to arrest you for anything.

 

[biggie24420]

I have had my rifle and or shotgun on Tri-Met, but it was in a case, unloaded, locked, and secure. I contacted Tri-Met and they responded to me on Sept. 8, 2010.... and this is what they had to say.... granted it was a question about open carry on public transit.


Hi (my name):

My apologies for not responding sooner; I was on vacation until yesterday. I'm responding to your email, below, asking about the rules pertaining to the carrying of a handgun on the TriMet system. TriMet Code 28.15(D)(2) specifically prohibits persons from bringing onto the TriMet system weapons, including firearms, except as "otherwise provided by law." Under Oregon State law (ORS Chapter 166, which you note), the legislature has specifically reserved to itself the authority to regulate the manner in which firearms are used or carried. ORS Chapter 166 identifies several venues into which a lawful permit holder may not bring a concealed handgun (courthouses, for example), but public transit property and vehicles are not among those venues. Thus, a person with a valid concealed carry permit may bring a concealed handgun onto a TriMet vehicle, station, or platform.


The question becomes complicated if a person chooses to openly carry a handgun on our system. While technically there is no state law prohibition, there is one possibility for "regulating" the manner in which a person openly carries a handgun or other firearm on our system. The TMC provision noted above provides that "[w]here possession of [guns] cannot be prohibited by law, a person in possession of a weapon may not display or carry the weapon in a manner which is likely to result in fear or alarm by other persons or District employees." We have interpreted this provision to apply both to holders of handgun permits and those who have no permit, because the provision does not prohibit an individual's lawful use or possession of a firearm. Instead, the provision is directed at the fact-specific relationship that may exist between the individual's carrying or using the firearm and other persons lawfully on the transit system.


So, to answer your question, while openly carrying is not illegal or prohibited, you would want to be careful not to display your handgun in a manner which might cause fear or alarm to other riders or employees.


Thank you,

Shelley

Shelley Devine

Senior Deputy General Counsel

TriMet

 

[Darknight]

I have had my rifle and or shotgun on Tri-Met, but it was in a case, unloaded, locked, and secure. I contacted Tri-Met and they responded to me on Sept. 8, 2010.... and this is what they had to say.... granted it was a question about open carry on public transit.


Hi (my name):

My apologies for not responding sooner; I was on vacation until yesterday. I'm responding to your email, below, asking about the rules pertaining to the carrying of a handgun on the TriMet system. TriMet Code 28.15(D)(2) specifically prohibits persons from bringing onto the TriMet system weapons, including firearms, except as "otherwise provided by law." Under Oregon State law (ORS Chapter 166, which you note), the legislature has specifically reserved to itself the authority to regulate the manner in which firearms are used or carried. ORS Chapter 166 identifies several venues into which a lawful permit holder may not bring a concealed handgun (courthouses, for example), but public transit property and vehicles are not among those venues. Thus, a person with a valid concealed carry permit may bring a concealed handgun onto a TriMet vehicle, station, or platform.


The question becomes complicated if a person chooses to openly carry a handgun on our system. While technically there is no state law prohibition, there is one possibility for "regulating" the manner in which a person openly carries a handgun or other firearm on our system. The TMC provision noted above provides that "[w]here possession of [guns] cannot be prohibited by law, a person in possession of a weapon may not display or carry the weapon in a manner which is likely to result in fear or alarm by other persons or District employees." We have interpreted this provision to apply both to holders of handgun permits and those who have no permit, because the provision does not prohibit an individual's lawful use or possession of a firearm. Instead, the provision is directed at the fact-specific relationship that may exist between the individual's carrying or using the firearm and other persons lawfully on the transit system.


So, to answer your question, while openly carrying is not illegal or prohibited, you would want to be careful not to display your handgun in a manner which might cause fear or alarm to other riders or employees.


Thank you,

Shelley

Shelley Devine

Senior Deputy General Counsel

TriMet[/quote

That sounds a lot like regulating the way a person openly carries a firearm. Sounds like the cop is trying to say that if anyone feels like they are not comfortable with you having a gun you can be charged with a crime. Portlandia is famous for making their own rules and laws. The only government body that can regulate firearms is the legislative body. So how does one display a firearm in a manner that creates fear or alarm? Just like some jackass has the right to stand next to me while I am sitting down and have their pants hanging below their butt, I have the right to have my gun openly carried on my belt loaded with a permit of course. Portlandia would love to outlaw open carry. Obviously we need some good test cases to smack Portlandias stupidity out of them.

Remember the guy last year on the max platform in Seattle? He was open carrying minding his own business when some nut job went off on him yelling and screaming at him probably trying to provoke him. The police showed up, checked the gun guys id and he went on his way. Just because some liberal gun hating f**ktard wants to make a scene doesn't mean a crime was committed.

 

[Stomper]

A quick knee to the guy's jimmy would have ended his complaining...

 

[Asp]

So, to answer your question, while openly carrying is not illegal or prohibited, you would want to be careful not to display your handgun in a manner which might cause fear or alarm to other riders or employees.


Thank you,

Shelley Devine
Senior Deputy General Counsel
TriMet

I wonder what the hell that means. I'm sure it's not this:

 

[PiratePast40]

Zardoz was a fantastic movie. Even better if you "lived" the 70s.

 

[Stomper]

I wonder what the hell that means. I'm sure it's not this:

O...M...G!!

 

[1337BaldEagle]

Interesting, I will be in PDX next weekend. I really hope people don't piss and moan, cuz I ALWAYS carry, and mostly openly.

 

[chemist]

There was a case recently about a hysterical citizen calling 911 because of somebody OC'ing, and the responding officers ended up citing the caller for the unnecessary police response. We could only hope that occasional, responsible OC in public places would inoculate the masses against that kind of knee-jerk hoplophobia.

Like so many here, I'd often said, "Concealed means concealed," but lately I wonder that maybe it isn't time to teach via our actions, that we are all responsible for our own security and safety. The Connecticut registration law is an example of government overreach which is so outrageous, that I feel like it begs for a response, and it's time to take back the moral high ground.

I'm clean cut, I dress well, and I act responsibly - at least when I'm out in public. Maybe it's time to hoist the flag - and see if I end up being hoisted with my own petard. Here's the base issue: I do not need to prove that I'm not a criminal; the government officials need to prove that I am.

In Washington State there's case law that OC does not constitute RAS for a Terry stop (hat tip to member GoGoDawgs). We need some sort of precedent to the same effect here, on the South side of the river. In plain language, when you're asked why you choose to OC on the MAX, the answer is, "Because F.U., that's why."
http://i.imgur.com/UIDRJUL.png

 

[Asp]

I'm clean cut, I dress well, [...]- at least when I'm out in public.

That's entirely inconsequential when it comes to law of carrying lawfully.

You could dress like a bum - smelling like one is your choice. In a all likelihood as long as you aren't a proverbial phallus towards your fellow man, there (ideally) should be no issues. I have seen, albeit rarely, homeless people at with more dignity than the regular schmo on public trans.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yea and if you ask for another bag of peanuts on an airliner they'll threaten to throw you in the gulag for forty years. true story