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Interesting comments on hunting rounds...

DeanMk

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From the first volume of P.O. Ackley's Handbook for shooters and reloaders….

"Any rifle is a deer rifle; that is to say that deer have been killed with most all calibers from .22 R.F. up through the .25-20, .32-20, .38-40, .44-40 and so on.
However, in this day and age in speaking of a deer rifle, the rifle usually referred to is the .30-30, .32 Special, .300 Savage, .303 Savage and others.
Marlin now makes their handy Model 336 for the fine .35 Remington, which for my money, is one fo the best and most reliable game cartridges we have. It's 200 grain bullet is a good killer, even on elk.
While many elk are killed with the .30-30, it usually takes several hits to do the job; it doesn't compare with the .300 Savage.
The original load of the .303 Savage killed a host elk with its 195 grain bullet.
Then there is the .33 Winchester, almost a duplicate of the .35 Remington, but progress replaced it with the .348 Winchester.
The old Model '95 Winchester in .30-40 caliber is a real deer and elk gun. With its 220 grain bullet and mild recoil it is a real hunting rifle in any man's language; so is the old Krag in the same reliable .30-40 caliber.
But today, you must have a magnum!"
- Allyn H. Tedmon

It should be understood that this book originally came out in 1962 and I'm quoting a 3rd printing version from 1965.
Pretty interesting comments about some old and "obsolete" cartridges that were lauded when I was a young man.


Dean
 
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osprey

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Ya I had one around my place I caught on game camera several times that had terrible mange. I never could pattern him enough to put him down though.
 
It's amazing how far we have come since the 1920's or so, firearms and ammo development had really taken off and there was no end in sight!
Today we have more choices then ever, and yet, most of the last 100 years or more have provided us with well proven chamberings, so much so that it's next to impossible to really find any improvement over what was found in the 40's and 50's
I still use ether a .243or a 6.5X55 Swede for most hunts of up to elk size game, and the .270 or the .30/06 seem almost perfect for Elk, Moose, and Caribou, and even large bears!
Yes, there is a place for more power, but honestly, ether the .338 Win, or the .375 Holland and Holland will fill those needs quite nicely!
And lets not forget the grand old .45/70, Damn hard to beat, and impossable to improve upon today, though many still try!

I'm all for improvements and modern innovation, but I think we reached that apex already, and gains today will be very small and more toward bullet design and performance! Even wildcatting has dropped off dramatically, there isn't any thing we haven't already seen or tried already!
 
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It's amazing how far we have come since the 1920's or so, firearms and ammo development had really taken off and there was no end in sight!
Today we have more choices then ever, and yet, most of the last 100 years or more have provided us with well proven chamberings, so much so that it's next to impossible to really find any improvement over what was found in the 40's and 50's
I still use ether a .243or a 6.5X55 Swede for most hunts of up to elk size game, and the .270 or the .30/06 seem almost perfect for Elk, Moose, and Caribou, and even large bears!
Yes, there is a place for more power, but honestly, ether the .338 Win, or the .375 Holland and Holland will fill those needs quite nicely!
And lets not forget the grand old .45/70, Damn hard to beat, and impossable to improve upon today, though many still try!

I'm all for improvements and modern innovation, but I think we reached that apex already, and gains today will be very small and more toward bullet design and performance! Even wildcatting has dropped off dramatically, there isn't any thing we haven't already seen or tried already!
The improvements aren't coming in the form of chamberings themselves, but in bullet construction and powder formulations.

I think hunting bullets have come a long way just in the last 20 years or so and there isn't much sign of slowing down with the different radar and other technologies that can be applied to learning what exactly a bullet is doing in flight as well as what happens when it hits it's target, no matter what that may be.
 

best defense

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It's amazing how far we have come since the 1920's or so, firearms and ammo development had really taken off and there was no end in sight!
Today we have more choices then ever, and yet, most of the last 100 years or more have provided us with well proven chamberings, so much so that it's next to impossible to really find any improvement over what was found in the 40's and 50's
I still use ether a .243or a 6.5X55 Swede for most hunts of up to elk size game, and the .270 or the .30/06 seem almost perfect for Elk, Moose, and Caribou, and even large bears!
Yes, there is a place for more power, but honestly, ether the .338 Win, or the .375 Holland and Holland will fill those needs quite nicely!
And lets not forget the grand old .45/70, Damn hard to beat, and impossable to improve upon today, though many still try!

I'm all for improvements and modern innovation, but I think we reached that apex already, and gains today will be very small and more toward bullet design and performance! Even wildcatting has dropped off dramatically, there isn't any thing we haven't already seen or tried already!
The next real improvements may not be in firearms at all but other types of weapons.
 

Andy54Hawken

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For centuries a stone or bone point got someone dinner...
With today's technology it should be no different.
Shot placement and actual hunting skill are just as , if not more important , than what cartridge is used.

Do your homework on what you want to hunt with and where you want to hunt....
Practice with your choice of hunting firearm / bow etc... under conditions that mimic hunting situations...
Learn about the game animal that you want to hunt....

I like older hunting rounds...as they are still around , usually 'cause they work well.
I prefer lead round ball...'cause again it works well for what , where and how I hunt.

Newer cartridges may well work as good....but one still must learn to hunt and not just be concerned with how the cartridge performs on paper.
Andy
 

orygun

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I've followed PO's lead on one of my rifles. I had Velzey rechamber my Ruger '06 a few years back. I was able to pick up an easy 100fps, getting 2900fps out of a 180gr bullet out of a 22" barrel. The '06AI wasn't considered a "sucess", but it was enough to halve the difference between the standard 30-06 and the 300 Win Mag.
It was a fun project, but one I now wish I hadn't started.
 

Legs

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I reload and take full advantage of advancements in components, making rounds that I shoot much better than say 20 years ago. I don't consider myself a cartridge snob and apparently have not jumped on the designer cartridge wagon. No short fat alphabet cartridges and only one metric round in the rifle stable, the storied 7 mauser.
Newest cartridge in my existing long arms inventory is 300 win mag (1963) and the rest go back in age.... 5.56, 26-06, 270, 30-06, 35 Remy, 30-30 Win, 45-70 and the 7 Mauser. They do all I need.
While I have several pistol caliber carbines I am strictly referencing my hunting rifle carthridges.
 

MechaNik

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I reload and take full advantage of advancements in components, making rounds that I shoot much better than say 20 years ago. I don't consider myself a cartridge snob and apparently have not jumped on the designer cartridge wagon. No short fat alphabet cartridges and only one metric round in the rifle stable, the storied 7 mauser.
Newest cartridge in my existing long arms inventory is 300 win mag (1963) and the rest go back in age.... 5.56, 26-06, 270, 30-06, 35 Remy, 30-30 Win, 45-70 and the 7 Mauser. They do all I need.
While I have several pistol caliber carbines I am strictly referencing my hunting rifle carthridges.
that 5.56 you mentioned isn't metric? So it's five and one half inches in diameter, then? :D
 

gmerkt

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PO Ackley wrote all that stuff then proceeded to try to improve on just about every standard cartridge in the American inventory.
I was able to pick up an easy 100fps
Yes he did. But you have to wonder, how much net gain in pursuit of typical goals was squeezed out of the originals? Not trying to be a smart-A, how much deader does a deer get from an extra 100 fps, for example. I think Ackley did it mostly because it was there to do. He was a businessman, I'm guessing his cartridge improvements helped generate business, as well as revenue from books and articles.

No short fat alphabet cartridges
None here. Those fatties were mostly about something new for the arms and ammunition makers to sell. I don't think they've caught on to any major degree, have they? Again, they don't kill game any deader than a .30-30, .270, or .30-06. And produce more bolt face thrust.

I'm kind of a Luddite when it comes to new brass cartridge development. It's been pretty well taken around the block in the past 100 plus years. What will be more apt to catch my interest is something truly revolutiionary. Like a ray gun. We're seeing some new emphasis on composite cartridge case development; that's just more of the same, not a big enough "revolution."

Weatherby cartridge design is kinda like Ackley Improved, with the bumped-out, high-angle shoulder. Those were designed as such from the get-go, yet still haven't supplanted standard major factory offerings. To each his own, if it works for you, go for it.
 
I reload and take full advantage of advancements in components, making rounds that I shoot much better than say 20 years ago. I don't consider myself a cartridge snob and apparently have not jumped on the designer cartridge wagon. No short fat alphabet cartridges and only one metric round in the rifle stable, the storied 7 mauser.
Newest cartridge in my existing long arms inventory is 300 win mag (1963) and the rest go back in age.... 5.56, 26-06, 270, 30-06, 35 Remy, 30-30 Win, 45-70 and the 7 Mauser. They do all I need.
While I have several pistol caliber carbines I am strictly referencing my hunting rifle carthridges.
Get some 275 Rigby brass and kiss the metric goodbye totally!
 
OP
DeanMk

DeanMk

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PO Ackley wrote all that stuff then proceeded to try to improve on just about every standard cartridge in the American inventory.
Look again. Ackley didn't write the passage I quoted.
Allyn H. Tedmon did.
It just happened to appear towards the beginning of the book.

Dean
 

Spitpatch

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Ackley not only applied his "improvement" to other cartridges, he actually formulated some of his own, and was a gun builder of the very first order.

One of his cartridges is the .276 Ackley. (actually .284/7mm caliber). This was quite along the lines of the efforts by Phil Sharpe and others to neck down the .375 H&H belted case to 7mm. (Efforts which would eventually culminate in the 7mm Remington Magnum.)

The Ackley version shuns the extremely overbore case capacity of the later Remington, and much like the Sharpe and Hart version, adopts a more "sensible" (some would say "efficient") volume of the case. Also the body taper is less than the Remington (and the S&H) as a foreshadowing of the "Short Mags" or better yet, following the .300 Savage (a cartridge design nearly 100 years ahead of its time). It displays the longer neck granting perhaps better bullet alignment (short necks are a major criticism leveled at the .300 Winchester and 7mm Remington).

P2260117.JPG

Left to right: 7mm Remington Magnum, .276 Ackley

The precision of his barrels is still legendary, and the rifles he built were of a quality equal or better than his contemporaries such as Biesen and Linden.

Here is a an Ackley gun built on a Mauser action with all the bells and whistles (fine wraparound checkering, high grade wood, ebony caps, inletted butplate, supergrade swivels, custom mount bases, jeweled bolt, flip safety), chambered in his cartridge: the .276 Ackley. It was built for a Doctor who was also a world-class Sheep hunter. The gun shows hard repeated use in high rocky country, and carries its original Weatherby 2x7x scope. Best of the best.

And it went hunting in 2018:


PA200287.JPG
 
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Spitpatch

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Thank you. When I received the gun, it had been stored for quite some time prior to the Doctor's death, and so I disassembled and cleaned it thoroughly. The most impressive thing I discovered was the inletting job: All done by hand (no "Dremel", no "glass") and all perfectly mating wood to metal. I had never seen old-craft inletting up close before, and to know it was Parker's hand that did it was emotional for me. And it works. The rifle is so very accurate.
 
OP
DeanMk

DeanMk

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Good to know that the gun is now in the hands of someone who can appreciate the level of craftsmanship that went into creating it. :s0155:
 

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