Input RE .308 vs 7.62 X51 NATO.....

Mikej

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I'm needing to pick up some 7.62 NATO ammo for an M14 type rifle. The manufacturer recommends 7.62 NATO. I understand why through a bunch of reading, brass thickness/pressure etc. Perusing the webs I see straight .308 Win, and 7.62 X 51, and some that says 7.62 NATO, on the label. Is ammo that's labeled 7.62 X 51 and 7.62 NATO the same? I'm hoping to get reloadable brass. So some countries stuff that's been in caves since 1950 with berdan priming isn't preferred. Nor is steel case seeing as it's not that much cheaper than brass is. Then, considering the times? I'm relegated to paying close to a buck a round...Though I did find this stuff which appears to be reloadable. I just don't know if "M80" means NATO. Or if it's crimped?
 
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Mikej

Mikej

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M80 is the designation for standard 7.62x51 ball ammo.


elsie
Thanks Elsie....I pretty much confirmed that M80 IS NATO.
M80 ball ammo is a type of ammunition used in machine guns. It is mostly used on people who aren't armored, and it has other names as well. The tips of the bullets are usually not painted, and they work with m60 machine guns. Its other names include. 308 Winchester, 7.26 NATO, and 7.62 x 51mm.Dec 22, 2019

"Ball" maybe? also. However I've heard Ball used for years referring to full metal jacketed .45 acp round nose. And other calibers too. I still don't know if ammo labeled "7.62 X 51 always refers to NATO spec ammo though? But the above states that plainly I guess.
 

powermad

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7.62x51 and 7.62 NATO is a military round made to military specs.
7.62 NATO will have the cross and meets NATO specs for 7.62x51.
Other 7.62x51 like PPU are made to those specs but haven't been tested and approved so they don't get the circle cross stamp.
 

powermad

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The last time I bought canned 7.62x51 was Federal Lake City for $.70 ea.
I picked up some Portuguese 7.62 NATO around the same time for $.45 ea but they are Berdan primed.

Check ammoseek for ammo online.
$.75 ea Prvi Partizan (PPU) - 7.62X51 - 145 Grain - FMJBT - 500 Rounds - True Shot Gun Club
$.86 ea for the stuff you linked.

I haven't shot any PPU 7.62x51 but have used their 5.56x45 and 9mm NATO spec ammo and it's good stuff.
 
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Mikej

Mikej

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The last time I bought canned 7.62x51 was Federal Lake City for $.70 ea.
I picked up some Portuguese 7.62 NATO around the same time for $.45 ea but they are Berdan primed.

Check ammoseek for ammo online.
$.75 ea Prvi Partizan (PPU) - 7.62X51 - 145 Grain - FMJBT - 500 Rounds - True Shot Gun Club
$.86 ea for the stuff you linked.

I haven't shot any PPU 7.62x51 but have used their 5.56x45 and 9mm NATO spec ammo and it's good stuff.
That PPU was what I just bought. I only bought 200 though. Seemed like too much to get 500 at this time.
 

tac

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PPU ammunition is not only good stuff, but the brass is excellent - sold to Grafs and Wolf, BTW.

NB - If you are going to shoot this in an M14 [?] do NOT shoot ANY .308Win ammunition. The military case has a rounded internal shape to the base, where more meat is needed to suffer being dragged out of a Gatling gun at 6000 rpm - the Mini-Gun, IOW.

The commercial version that is similar, but NOT the same as the 7.62x51 is the good old .308Win, which has a different internal delineation with a bigger load capacity. That equals more velocity and higher pressure by around 10% than the military cartridge, even though they appear to be as identical as they possibly can.

No doubt your M14 could put up with it, but why try?

NATO Service ammunition, BTW, is all around the 145 - 155gr mark, but .308Win is readily available with up to 190gr bullets. We used to use Hirtenbirger 190gr stuff in our sniping rifles in my bit of the Army. When necessary, of course. ;)

The initial 7.62x51 bullet weighed just 147gr, if that kind of thing interests you. Later changed to 150gr as general issue thoughout NATO.

tac's handy helpful bleeve it or don't #9334 -

The word 'Ball' is used for ALL FMJ bullets, regardless of shape. It is, of course, a corruption of Old French - 'baille'/ball when ALL projectiles fired from a gun WERE a ball. A small ball, in French, is called a 'baillette', from which we get the word 'bullet'. Cet'un p'tit monde, n'est-ce-pas?
 
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powermad

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No more mag dumps anymore. :(

In 2006 or so J&G had Indian OHV stamped 7.62x51, 400 rnds in a can on strippers, in bandos and Boxer primed for $25
The UPS guy hated me back then. ;)
Then no more ammo imported and whammo, no ammo and it all went through the roof.
That same can went for $100 almost overnight around 2008.
I finally got rid of all the empty clips and bandos a few months ago but still have a ton of cans.
 

tac

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Cackle......OHV = Ordnance Factory Vindaloo. Sound familiar to you?

Yup, it's the same town that the ultra-hot curry originated. The OHV ammunition that was bought for the British Armed Forces after the Falklands war depleted the war stocks was such utter s*ite that when we fired the 9mmP stuff in the Sterling SMG it would invariably empty the magazine, not having enough energy to blow the breechblock back far enough to engage the sear.

For the first time in my life I could actually see a 9mmP bullet in flight as it came out of the muzzle in a rather leisurely arc, and bounced off the face of the hardboard target, leaving a small and pathetic little dimple behind it.

The Indians had probably loaded them with curry powder....

Just don't ask about the 7.62x51 they provided....
 
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tac

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7.62x51 and 7.62 NATO is a military round made to military specs.
7.62 NATO will have the cross and meets NATO specs for 7.62x51.
Other 7.62x51 like PPU are made to those specs but haven't been tested and approved so they don't get the circle cross stamp.
Here in Europe we get a lot of this stuff - GGG - Production

1603660659383.png

It is authorised for ALL service shooting at Bisley, not only for the Civilian Service Rifle matches, but for ALL military matches/competitions involving the use of either manual [for the civvies' or semi-auto [for the military] shooting. It is NOT economy ammunition - it cost $1.39 per shot here. :eek:

Note that the British Army, Royal Marines and RAF Regiment ALL use a variant of the LMT designated marksman service rifle with S&B scopes, and the GGG stuff is what they shoot in them. Even in Afghanistan...

Unless you are happy to ream out the primer pockets from the 120 degree stakings put there during manufacture, then it's best to bin the empties, which is what I did this morning.
 
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Mikej

Mikej

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PPU ammunition is not only good stuff, but the brass is excellent - sold to Grafs and Wolf, BTW.

NB - If you are going to shoot this in an M14 [?] do NOT shoot ANY .308Win ammunition. The military case has a rounded internal shape to the base, where more meat is needed to suffer being dragged out of a Gatling gun at 6000 rpm - the Mini-Gun, IOW.

The commercial version that is similar, but NOT the same as the 7.62x51 is the good old .308Win, which has a different internal delineation with a bigger load capacity. That equals more velocity and higher pressure by around 10% than the military cartridge, even though they appear to be as identical as they possibly can.

No doubt your M14 could put up with it, but why try?

NATO Service ammunition, BTW, is all around the 145 - 155gr mark, but .308Win is readily available with up to 190gr bullets. We used to use Hirtenbirger 190gr stuff in our sniping rifles in my bit of the Army. When necessary, of course. ;)

The initial 7.62x51 bullet weighed just 147gr, if that kind of thing interests you. Later changed to 150gr as general issue thoughout NATO.

tac's handy helpful bleeve it or don't #9334 -

The word 'Ball' is used for ALL FMJ bullets, regardless of shape. It is, of course, a corruption of Old French - 'baille'/ball when ALL projectiles fired from a gun WERE a ball. A small ball, in French, is called a 'baillette', from which we get the word 'bullet'. Cet'un p'tit monde, n'est-ce-pas?
My desire is to have the thicker brass. I'm assuming that "M80" designation is that thicker brass. More durable = more loading + more better.
 

tac

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My desire is to have the thicker brass. I'm assuming that "M80" designation is that thicker brass. More durable = more loading + more better.
Not ALL surplus M80 ammunition is Boxer primed. Some is Berdan primed, requiring not only a special tool to remove the spent primer - I used to use a piece of close-fitting dowel, water and a hammer - but hard-to-find Berdan primers to reload.

The stuff I mentioned - GGG - IS Boxer-primed, but had the primer staked in to prevent primer set-back.

And for the record -

M80 case capacity = 52gr of water.

Commercial .308Win case capacity = 56gr of water.

That extra space CAN make a 50000psi load into a 65000psi load, with certain unwanted results.
 
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Mikej

Mikej

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Not ALL surplus M80 ammunition is Boxer primed. Some is Berdan primed, requiring not only a special tool to remove the spent primer - I used to use a piece of close-fitting dowel, water and a hammer - but hard-to-find Berdan primers to reload.

The stuff I mentioned - GGG - IS Boxer-primed, but had the primer staked in to prevent primer set-back.

And for the record -

M80 case capacity = 52gr of water.

Commercial .308Win case capacity = 56gr of water.

That extra space CAN make a 50000psi load into a 65000psi load, with certain unwanted results.
Yes! The fact loads should be kept on the lighter side is what I had discovered. I do not know if the PPU from the link above has crimped primers or not. I shall find out, down the line. And if so, will take appropriate steps to remedy the situation.
 

tac

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Yes! The fact loads should be kept on the lighter side is what I had discovered. I do not know if the PPU from the link above has crimped primers or not. I shall find out, down the line. And if so, will take appropriate steps to remedy the situation.

PPU ammunition is made for the civilian market, where the majority of users do not have a Mini-Gun. It is regular-style primer pockets all the way.
 

tac

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I'll refrain from recommending any particular load, especially in view of the fact that the last legally-owned semi-auto centrefire rifle/carBEEN here in UK disappeared into the furnace back in 1986.

Suffice to to say that your M14 will love the Lapua Scenar or Palma Match bullet of around 155gr, and spread anything heavier around the landscape like a a mad woman's shyte.
 
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Mikej

Mikej

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I'll refrain from recommending any particular load, especially in view of the fact that the last legally-owned semi-auto centrefire rifle/carBEEN here in UK disappeared into the furnace back in 1986.

Suffice to to say that your M14 will love the Lapua Scenar or Palma Match bullet of a around 155gr, and spread anything heavier around the landscape like a a mad woman's shyte.
The reality is, that it will be some time before I'd be reloading for this beast. At this time I have a bulk box of Sierra 150 gr HPBT Matchkings that I have for the Garand.
 

powermad

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Mike
I was doing an ammo inventory and found a bag of various 30-06 that I got with a reloading set at a yard sale years ago.
I'll never shoot them as I consider them components.
You can have them if you want them, about 35 rounds.

.
 
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Mikej

Mikej

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Mike
I was doing an ammo inventory and found a bag of various 30-06 that I got with a reloading set at a yard sale years ago.
I'll never shoot them as I consider them components.
You can have them if you want them, about 35 rounds.

.
Thanks for the offer. I currently have plenty of powder and components for ought-6. And plenty of PPU unfired rounds still to empty. :D
 

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