I'm not asking

[Kruel J]

OP,

You make a lot of good valid points and your questions are well thought out. That said, my first question would be why are you having so many run ins with LE and firearms? I don't need or want details, but it certainly stands out in your post and raises plenty of questions. Secondly, the laws and restrictions you reference were voted in by the people of WA state. Are they absolute bullsh!t? Yes. But the voters of Washington state asked for these.

 

[GrayGoose]

Long post. You lost me at 'Today'.

 

[Brians356]

Me? I'm pacing myself ...

-

 

[kopcicle]

why are you having so many run ins with LE and firearms?

You specifically didn't ask but, 46 years living in the same general area can do that.

 

[Kruel J]

You specifically didn't ask but, 46 years living in the same general area can do that.

Maybe so. Not in my area though. That's an intriguing remark.

Anyway, not my business. And I don't want it to be.

 

[nammac]

I don't

You specifically didn't ask but, 46 years living in the same general area can do that.

I don't know about that. Same location for two decades, have had exactly two encounters with police. One when I tagged the bumper of the car in front of me pulling away from a stoplight. Ok, it was more than a tag…. The other when my adult daughter was hit by a car while crossing the street, in the cross walk.

I was armed both times, police knew who
I was, no issues. I live a clean lifestyle, treat others as I want to be treated, go through life with a decorum of respect for others….

I use turn signals, make sure your lights are in working order, stay reasonably within the speed limits and don't behave like an aggressive driver. All of these behaviors have been the secret to me not needing to have encounters with police.

 

[Flopsweat]

A fine manifestno.








lol, didn't read so don't know

Being honest here, posts that long….I just can't.

Same. It started out OK, but got to be a bit much. Out.

 

[Kruel J]

I don't

I don't know about that. Same location for two decades, have had exactly two encounters with police. One when I tagged the bumper of the car in front of me pulling away from a stoplight. Ok, it was more than a tag…. The other when my adult daughter was hit by a car while crossing the street, in the cross walk.

I was armed both times, police knew who
I was, no issues. Live a clean lifestyle, treat others as you want to be treated, go through life with a decorum of respect for others….

Use turn signals, make sure your lights are in working order, stay reasonably within the speed limits and don't behave like an aggressive driver. All of these behaviors have been the secret to me not needing to have encounters with police.

Back in the late 90s/early aughts I lived in a really lousy part of Tacoma. Crime and cops every night out the windows. I had one interaction with LE and it was a very positive one where I was on the right side of the law (witnessed a vehicle suspected in a theft). I'm not including the random speeding ticket of course.

 

[Prefontaine]

I hear a lot of frustration in your post, Kopcicle, but what's outcome you're looking for? Cops receiving less than adequate training in certain aspects of their job? Check. State and federal misunderstanding of firearms, who's wielding them and how they're procured? Check. Those same people passing laws/restrictions that affect those who are following the rules and not those who don't? (Especially without a plan to make owners into felons or make those owners whole (we bought/used them when they were legal). Check. Right now, in this moment, there's nothing we can do about it. And that feels like a cliff we're being pushed into.

The frustration I hear is the same from guys that have eaten a bullet. I want you to know that you can reach out and talk.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Once a while back...

During late deer season...I stopped in the local mom and pop run convenience store which also happened to have a kick azz deli.
It was cold and wet...so there I was in blaze orange shirt and vest , ordering my sandwich and coffee....
The only table left had one of our game warden's eating at it...he invited me to join him.

We had a great lunch , talkin' deer , guns , the outdoors and the like...that was fun.
Watching people , watching us and trying to figure out what was going on...was fun too...

As for the OP...
Life...it is different for everyone...even for those who have the same or very similar experiences.
Some folks know about guns...and firearm laws...some don't...when those who don't wear some sort of badge...
It can get you to thinking for sure.
Andy

 

[Howard1955]

Today most police shootings consist of, arrive, take fire or threat from assailant, magazine dump the assailant, reload and repeat until they are down and no longer resisting.

This action often has a curious effect of continuing to cycle the trigger (usually a Glock) multiple times after the slide has locked back on an empty magazine.

Is this a lack of training or an effect of extreme stress?

This action is not limited to police. It has pervaded the criminal element as well.

I need at least what I am sure to face in a lethal encounter in order to defend myself.
If I can get to my rifle before my pistol so much the better.
The pistols are .45 and 7+1 and +P 9mm 124gr 15+1
The rifles are 5.56 and .308 with 20 or 30+1 and NOT loaded with ball ammunition.
Clearing my home requires precision. There are multiple directions and areas I can not shoot.
Even the minimal dispersion at contact ranges for buckshot in my home are not acceptable.
That said a ghost loaded pump loaded with #0 is held in reserve.

Now the state has limited, infringed on my ability to defend myself.
Only my 1911 is "acceptable" now.
The 9mm, 5.56, and .308 are limited to 10 round magazines
The 5.56 and .308 are now technically unserviceable due to the legal interpretation of "parts".
If I were to attempt to replace a component defined as part of the "fire control group" I can not receive it.
My preferred choice for home defense is now described as "not in common use for self defense" or "preferred weapon of violent mass shooters" or even "weapon of mass destruction".
Because a criminal has used a semi-automatic weapon in commission of a crime now I, a lawful, legal gun owner am penalized and my rights infringed.
With the pistol brace rule I am denied the option of a short barrelled rifle.
Again I am denied the option of a longer barrel under the definition of "parts".
Again I am denied the option of a rifle stock to go with that longer barrel under the definition of "parts" .
If I should break a firing pin in any of my proscribed "assault weapons" it is available from any number of retailers in the the country. They will not ship the part for fear of prosecution.
If I should break a firing pin in any of my proscribed "assault weapons" and make one, I am guilty of "manufacturing".
Any unfinished receivers I may have had are now "undetectable guns".
I can no longer allow current active duty military personal in my home because I won't place them in a possible position of criminal malfeasance.
and it shall be the duty of all peace officers, and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, to seize said machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found.
Now someone that may have no idea what constitutes a machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof is now tasked with it's seizure?
And the legal definition of an "undetectable firearm" may be in limbo on the federal level but it is law in this state.
Again with the pistol brace rule in limbo I'm a felon or not depending on the day of the week.
I am not restricted or deprived according to the law as my weapons and magazines are "grandfathered".
I can leave these weapons to my kin but they can not do the same. They can not even accept the high capacity magazines nor can I give them.
By the same thinking I am not restricted or deprived according to the law as there are many more non-semi-automatic weapons available to me for self defense.
The phrase "has no sporting purpose" appears with regularity in the same context as "weapon of war" .
Body armor is already a prosecution enhancement along with a firearm used in the commission of a felony.
It's only a matter of time until body armor itself is outlawed here.

I can't count the number of times I've been relieved of my legally carried firearm and confronted with the question "Is this pistol registered?" from a sworn, commissioned law enforcement official. Is this a gross misconception on the part of law enforcement? Do they not teach any semblance of constitutional law in a police academy? Is this department policy and procedure?
Has this phrase been added to "Terry stops" in pursuit of probable cause? Gun registration past the initial BATFE form 4473 is forbidden under the 14th amendment.
In some cases I've had to follow the officer back to the station or precinct and demand my property be returned, give a receipt, or arrest me. Usually because the weapon serial number can't be found or traced. Good luck with that. In most cases it's a 1911 that was gifted to me on my discharge, without 4473, in another state, over 40 years ago.
"Do you have a receipt or bill of sale for this weapon?" I do not have to prove that I own it. That it is in my possession and not recorded as stolen is enough.
Additionally most officers do not know how to safely unload the weapon.
"Why do you carry with the hammer cocked over a live round? That's reckless endangerment and just scary " Condition one is now reckless endangerment? I've been doing it wrong for over 40 years?
The last two times I had to relinquish my 1911 to law enforcement I was flagged by my own pistol, both times with the safety off while attempting to clear the loaded chamber.
One time there was a finger in the trigger guard. I tried to move off the bore axis only to have the officer track me with his finger in the trigger guard of a "hot" pistol.
I had to dive behind a car to get clear of the muzzle. Once I was cleared of any wrong doing and my unloaded pistol returned I took a moment to verbally berate the offending officer in my best imitation of a master chief petty officer that has had his sleep interrupted for no reason. No one stopped me. He did stand there and listen.
We obviously don't give our officers nearly enough training or education.

My Camillus Mark II Navy Knifes are legal to own but have been illegal to carry for decades. I have even had the Washington Dept. of Fish and Wildlife ignore the machete and the skinning knife and attempt to confiscate Navy knife as illegal . Washington state law generally considers carrying a concealed knife illegal, with the blade not being completely visible or observable being classified as concealed. So if sheathed, it's concealed regardless of if the knife is carried in the open or for use in a lawful occupation, trade, or profession. If you're caught carrying a concealed knife without a valid reason, it could lead to misdemeanor charges. Since the machete had camp and trail use it was exempt. Since the 110 Buck folder was a utility knife it was exempt. Since the gut hook skinner was what we were there for (deer season) it was exempt.
The Navy "fighting knife" was a dangerous weapon to be confiscated. This led to an uncomfortable stand off.

"I'm hunting deer with a FN-FAL, five round magazine inserted, with two 20 round magazines in reserve. I'm clearly displaying a 1911 Colt government with two magazines in reserve. The machete has more reach than any of the knives I carry. And you want to confiscate this blooded steel, Navy knife that has been in my possession for 40 years because it's a dangerous weapon? "

My guess is that the officer retreated to use his radio and ask for backup. I'm also guessing the response was something like " what the hell were you thinking!?"

This is where we were headed 10 years ago so current events do no surprise me.

15 years ago I was carrying the same 1911 for personal defense during the black powder hunt and actually had a gun pointed at me as I was ordered to surrender the weapon. This officer threatened to confiscate all weapons, vehicles, permits and tags while arresting all concerned. The penalties were felony prosecution, $$$, incarceration, and forfeiture of all hunting and fishing rights for life. The Pierce county sheriff's office made quick work of this imbecile and we were back to the hunt within hours. I subsequently carried a '51 Navy cap and ball revolver for personal protection on the black powder hunt until the law was better defined.

No, still not surprised where we are today.

Washingtonians may remember the day when the 1911 was not legal for deer. Something about lacking muzzle energy. (Two world wars but not a white tailed deer!) At least on this occasion I was asked to take it back to camp and leave it in the vehicle. Thereafter I concealed the weapon while on the hunt.

Not surprised at all.

For the last 20 years every time I visit a Veterans Administration health care facility I'm asked ...
"Do you have any feelings of anger, fear or anxiety? "
"Have you felt the need to harm others or yourself?"
"Do you consider yourself to be a danger to yourself or others?"
"Have you contemplated suicide?"
And more recently
"Do you own guns or weapons of any kind?"

After answering no to all the above I found I was referred to a psychiatric evaluation prior to having a wound stitched up. I guess they didn't believe me. I wisely removed the referral from my folder and left. I stitched the wound myself.

Not surprised, simply annoyed.

When I was discharged from military service 40 years ago I was cautioned that my interest in firearms may not be well received by the civilian population as part of an exit interview. I asked why.

"The time will come when the non serving civilian population will come to fear the capabilities of its young men and women that have been trained in the use of deadly force. They will forget that the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. They will exert any and all means to disarm and pacify you in the name of public safety. Your very right to personal safety and defense will be viewed as vigilantism. Your time in the service has exposed you to a much different world than you are going back to. You have been changed, they have not. I recommend that you practice and retain the tools you have been given and walk quietly among those who seek to disenfranchise you. "

I was still in my 20's and somewhat surprised.

I have been quiet long enough.
Be on a first name basis with members of your local police department and sheriffs office as you are able.
Do the same with your city council, mayor, county council, representatives, and senators.
Be an advocate for gun safety but not gun control.
Train, be deadly if called upon.
Speak out against tyranny in all its forms.
Be prepared to defend against emotion with facts and logic.
In short, become a patriot.

Give me liberty was never a request. It has always been an ultimatum.
The very being of this country came at the point of a gun.
Your rights may very well have to be defended by that same gun.
I advocate neither revolt nor insurrection but a steadfast belief that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

All my hopes

Copy that.

Our Republic is in deep trouble. The founders of our nation are probably spinning in their graves.

I'm old enough that I may not live to see how this all turns out - but I'm concerned for the young folks. They're in for some hard times, I think.

 

[saxon]

"Ah yes, [life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness]... Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of 'right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The third 'right'?—the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives—but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can ensure that I will catch it."
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

see also

"There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. We're trying to teach you to be dangerous — to the enemy. Dangerous even without a knife. Deadly as long as you still have one hand or one foot and are still alive. If you don't know what I mean, go read 'Horatius at the Bridge' or 'The Death of the Bon Homme Richard'; they're both in the Camp library."
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 

[Brians356]

Back in the late 90s/early aughts I lived in a really lousy part of Tacoma. Crime and cops every night out the windows.

A cousin of mine was a cop in Tacoma in that era, for a long time on a motorcycle. Quiet type. He got a medal for some heroic deed. The stories he can tell, but rarely does.
-

 

[Kruel J]

A cousin of mine was a cop in Tacoma in that era, for a long time on a motorcycle. Quiet type. He got a medal for some heroic deed. The stories he can tell, but rarely does.
-

Yeah, it was a little rough.

 

[Stomper]

Same. It started out OK, but got to be a bit much. Out.

Perhaps if the OP could be rewritten as a haiku…..

 

[Certaindeaf]

Perhaps if the OP could be rewritten as a haiku…..

 

[Stomper]

I remember that sheite!

 

[Certaindeaf]

I remember that sheite!

Oh it was real! Every kid thought it was magic panty dropping karate chopping shiznit.

 

[Stomper]

Oh it was real! Every kid thought it was magic panty dropping karate chopping shiznit.

Then came along, Axe and made Old Spice….. well, old.

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

Perhaps if the OP could be rewritten as a haiku…..

That's @EPS's job, but haven't seen a post from him in a while.