I watched a robbery and did nothing

[Camelfilter]

Not true. We had a shoplifter cuffed and stuffed within 15 minutes of the report by Target loss prevention in Salem. By the time we took her back to the store, they already had the report from all the stores she had been observed shoplifting, along with a detailed list of merchandise with prices. That included info from Walmart, Fred Meyer, and other participating retailers.

As far as shoplifting in major stores, they have all the information they need. For other crimes where there isn't continuous monitoring, yes, credible, actionable, information is needed if you want the cops to be able to do anything. Video is probably the best evidence you can offer.

Inserting yourself into the situation and becoming a part of it, is a completely different matter and I think that's what this discussion is about.

Yup.

Don't see any point myself in "being a good witness" in this specific circumstance. Target/box stores have cameras in & out.

Cell phone video/pictures/following a perp/tsk tsk tsk'ing a peep to help them realize "they're doing something wrong"?

Nope.

They are shoplifting. They know they are doing something wrong. Any interjecting on my part (even passive) could have a poor outcome. Could. The fight/flight mode being a perfect example...Could cause the peep to run someone down amidst there flight.

The criminal justice system needs a revamp. To stop this, and many many other problems...

 

[MannyGlocks]

"Notify the store's LP staff."

This at the very most and exceedingly discreetly...

Suggesting to a shoplifter, (and I'm paraphrasing) that they 'might not want to shoplift' or outright recording them is in (MO) a horrible idea with many terrible outcome possibilities...

And, I'm NOT going to be a good witness for the store...yeah sure, when the shoplifters sees, hears me, testifying in court against him or her (thus now knows who I am and may seek revenge of some sort) nope, not gonna happen, I'm not 'loss prevention' for the store.

Shoplifters are obviously criminals, that I don't care to come into contact with...ever!

 

[bigjoejc]

I think you did the right thing.

 

[crstrode]

Not robbery.
Shoplifting.

 

[Camelfilter]

Not robbery.
Shoplifting.

Yup.

Also part of what needs to change in our criminal justice system.

Minimizing non-violent crime, to the point we are now. Putting a dollar amount to it, before CJS does "something",& that "something"? Also minimal.

That's how we got where we are today as a society.

Broken windows theory worked, & worked well (no "small" crimes).

 

[BuckMark]

The only times I go to Target in Bonney Lake are for when I need to pick up medication or to look at their cookware.

Thus I'm standing in the check out line with my bags of pills and a new non stick frying pan, idly trying to determine the gender and potential species of the blue haired whale like cashier. I've determined it is most likely a female, perhaps a species of white orca that had been conscripted to this life of cashiering.

To our left a lot of yelling is going on, an anorexic appearing teenager starts jumping around a second large creature (this one resembles a black walrus with low quality weave work.) The poor clerks arms are flailing about like Kermit the frog, saying she cant leave yet and has to pay. She pushes her cart past him and out the door. I instinctively grip my Luger and get ready to confront her when I had a vision of the future. I saw myself being handcuffed and sitting in the back of a squad car.

The poster child for anorexia didn't follow her outside, why should I risk my safety and freedom?

This wasn't my battle, not worth the risks involved to "do the right thing". I'd have liked to have done something but I believe I made the right choice to not go after the walrus, it's not as if I packed my harpoon gun for such an occasion anyhow.

I think you will get a lot of support here for the choices you made.

 

[Old Dog]

Minimizing non-violent crime, to the point we are now. Putting a dollar amount to it, before CJS does "something",& that "something"? Also minimal.

That's how we got where we are today as a society.

Broken windows theory worked, & worked well (no "small" crimes).

Yep. Clearly some here don't understand the whole "broken windows theory," either that, or they just don't care, which is probably worse. Maybe it's a generational thing, I dunno.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Yep. Clearly some here don't understand the whole "broken windows theory," either that, or they just don't care, which is probably worse. Maybe it's a generational thing, I dunno.

I think most of us understand the "broken windows" theory quite well. We also understand that;
A) WE didn't break the windows
B) The people breaking the windows can break them far faster than we can fix them.
C) The people whose windows are being broken don't care.
D) The people whose windows are being broken would happily throw any of us under the bus for trying to stop their windows from being broken.
E) The people whose windows are being broken wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone trying to fix their broken windows.
F) The people breaking the windows are likely to break OUR windows if we interfere, and know that they won't suffer any consequences for that either.
G) The "justice" system is likely to punish us if something goes sideways trying to prevent the windows from being broken.
H) No good deed goes unpunished.
In other words, without the support of society and the "justice" system, thinking you can help in the OP's situation is a bit Quixotic. I'll leave the fixing of society to the preachers and PollyAnnas.
The OP did absolutely the right thing!!

 

[Old Dog]

Good to know that so many here feel absolutely zero responsibility to help regulate social disorder within their own communities.

Many posts here make it very clear why the members of communities such as Portland and Seattle cannot assert informal social control, thus citizens will spend less time in public in their communities and will continue tp feel less and less connected to their communities.

Just further displays the lack of concern on the part of the citizenry these days, the selfishness and the lack of accepting personal responsibility to keep their communities safe.

Some want to sit around and wait for "the support of society" and the "justice system to get fixed," but if you want to leave the fixing of your society to others, well, that's making a statement in itself.

 

[nammac]

As long as Soros is allowed to continue to buy District Attorney seats, society will continue its downward spiral. Getting involved is meaningless when the justice system just cuts them loose to criminal again.

 

[Camelfilter]

I think most of us understand the "broken windows" theory quite well. We also understand that;
A) WE didn't break the windows
B) The people breaking the windows can break them far faster than we can fix them.
C) The people whose windows are being broken don't care.
D) The people whose windows are being broken would happily throw any of us under the bus for trying to stop their windows from being broken.
E) The people whose windows are being broken wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone trying to fix their broken windows.
F) The people breaking the windows are likely to break OUR windows if we interfere, and know that they won't suffer any consequences for that either.
G) The "justice" system is likely to punish us if something goes sideways trying to prevent the windows from being broken.
H) No good deed goes unpunished.
In other words, without the support of society and the "justice" system, thinking you can help in the OP's situation is a bit Quixotic. I'll leave the fixing of society to the preachers and PollyAnnas.
The OP did absolutely the right thing!!

Broken windows theory used as criminal justice program.

Not a public at large/civilian/vigilante/society one…

 

[bradsteen]

Broken windows theory used as criminal justice program.

Not a public at large/civilian/vigilante/society one…

Yep, it was a main feature of the community policing curriculum when I got my degree. The reason it could / would work when properly applied is law enforcement agents have the legal authority to take action when they observe non-violent crime being committed. While a citizen can interject themselves to stop a property crime from taking place, they do not have any immunity from civil or criminal prosecution should things go sideways. A step in the right direction could be for state and local governments to pass laws providing limited immunity to citizens who act in good faith to stop crimes in progress... If those protections were in place I'm sure more people would be a lot more willing to take action.

 

[nwslopoke]

I see some replies not taking account for the era and location we live in. It's no longer acceptable for the man of the house to confront any man from the neighborhood for some transgression. Government now has to be involved in everything.

It is a different time. We gave a lot away after 9/11 and more away to counter the Bush/Cheney years. Ironically, they are the new woke heroes. Any backlash or boycotts are short lived. Anyone shaving with Gillette or drinking cheap beer?

 

[nammac]

I see some replies not taking account for the era and location we live in. It's no longer acceptable for the man of the house to confront any man from the neighborhood for some transgression. Government now has to be involved in everything.

It is a different time. We gave a lot away after 9/11 and more away to counter the Bush/Cheney years. Ironically, they are the new woke heroes. Any backlash or boycotts are short lived. Anyone shaving with Gillette or drinking cheap beer?

Gave up beer a few years back and haven't touched any spirits in several months. As to shaving, been using a "safety razor" and 200 Dorco blades purchased in July 2015. Yup 200 blades has lasted me that long, shaving just twice a week. Total razor/blade investment, less than $40 in 2015 dollars….

 

[wired]

I see some replies not taking account for the era and location we live in. It's no longer acceptable for the man of the house to confront any man from the neighborhood for some transgression. Government now has to be involved in everything.

It is a different time. We gave a lot away after 9/11 and more away to counter the Bush/Cheney years. Ironically, they are the new woke heroes. Any backlash or boycotts are short lived. Anyone shaving with Gillette or drinking cheap beer?

You live in a non litigious society where you won't get jailed and/or shot and/or sued for confronting wrongdoers . Good for you.

 

[Mikej]

Anyone shaving with Gillette or drinking cheap beer?

I don't shave, thankfully! Is Busch full flavor cheep enough?

 

[Xaevian]

Silent judging, it is a PNW tradition.

 

[nwslopoke]

You live in a non litigious society where you won't get jailed and/or shot and/or sued for confronting wrongdoers . Good for you.

Missing the point. I'm saying it's a different era in that post and the earlier post. While I wish we could, it doesn't make sense, to, anymore.

To end up in jail or lose money for a good deed, when the courts/system is against you, isn't reasonable. It's fixable, but not likely. We'll, in this era.

 

[WillametteWill]

Not robbery.
Shoplifting.

So, I'm not completely clear based on the description of sea mammals, amphibians, and hair colour in the OP, but...

If the person used force to avoid being stopped, then it is a robbery in Washington, Oregon, and California.

Robbery—Definition.

​

A person commits robbery when he or she unlawfully takes personal property from the person of another or in his or her presence against his or her will by the use or threatened use of immediate force, violence, or fear of injury to that person or his or her property or the person or property of anyone. Such force or fear must be used to obtain or retain possession of the property, or to prevent or overcome resistance to the taking; in either of which cases the degree of force is immaterial. Such taking constitutes robbery whenever it appears that, although the taking was fully completed without the knowledge of the person from whom taken, such knowledge was prevented by the use of force or fear.​

If someone is attempting to stop someone from 'shoplifting' it can easily turn into a robbery...a felony.

Now, do I have any delusions that a DDA (Deputy District Attorney) is going to proceed with a felony case? Nope.
Do I think the OP needed to intervene? Nope, personal decision.
Once upon a time, before crooks were let out before the time it took a cup of tea to get cold. Was this a great tool to get criminals off the street for a while? Yup.

 

[Alexx1401]

So, I'm not completely clear based on the description of sea mammals, amphibians, and hair colour in the OP, but...

If the person used force to avoid being stopped, then it is a robbery in Washington, Oregon, and California.

Robbery—Definition.

A person commits robbery when he or she unlawfully takes personal property from the person of another or in his or her presence against his or her will by the use or threatened use of immediate force, violence, or fear of injury to that person or his or her property or the person or property of anyone. Such force or fear must be used to obtain or retain possession of the property, or to prevent or overcome resistance to the taking; in either of which cases the degree of force is immaterial. Such taking constitutes robbery whenever it appears that, although the taking was fully completed without the knowledge of the person from whom taken, such knowledge was prevented by the use of force or fear.​

If someone is attempting to stop someone from 'shoplifting' it can easily turn into a robbery...a felony.

Now, do I have any delusions that a DDA (Deputy District Attorney) is going to proceed with a felony case? Nope.
Do I think the OP needed to intervene? Nope, personal decision.
Once upon a time, before crooks were let out before the time it took a cup of tea to get cold. Was this a great tool to get criminals off the street for a while? Yup.

Here a "shop lifting" becomes "robbery" if someone at the store tries to stop them and they use force to get away. Often the scum will them pull a weapon, making it armed robbery. This is why most stores just tell staff to just let the stuff go. Too many of the scum will pull a gun and start shooting over it. While back some scum killed an elderly guy at some big box store. He tried to stop them and they pushed him down and he hit his head hard enough to end it. Of course if they catch said scum they will plead down to some wrist slap here