I Want a 9mm Carbine

[Alexx1401]

If you ever sell the gun sell the extra mags separately! But $50 for a 380 ?!

Believe me it chapped me good. Wife was asking about a .380 to keep in the car and keep at work. I had in the past had a few of these. Bersa. Told her pick one up. They are cheap and normally work great. I had no idea they had come out with a double stack version. She comes home one day from the gun shop with it. At first I thought, hey nice. Came factory with rubber grips like Pachmayer's which I have always loved. Then I went to buy some mags and that was a slap in the face. There may by now be some after market mags for these, have never looked. The OEM mags are well made but damn!
Bersa makes, or did make a couple really nice full size pistols too. They were victims of the same damn thing. Mags were as much as the pistol by the time you bought half a dozen or so. Looked at one in .45 one time. Price was very nice, pistol felt and looked really nice, then I looked at the price of the mags. Same thing, only available from the importer at VERY high price. The mags were the only thing that kept me from walking out of that shop with the pistol that day.
Edit: One other problem with these is of course can't buy or sell them on Ebay since they are over 10. I have long found mags that are harder to find and or expensive can always be found there if they are 10 or under. So if wife decided to sell the pistol would be a PITA to try to sell the mags now since I can't just toss them on Ebay.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Exactly what my buddy did after shooting my SBR'ed pistol and doing the math. Grab the HB bits when they are in stock, as they go out for weeks on end. i.e. they show the black kits in stock right now. Sure you already know this, you can own the uninstalled kit why you wait for your stamp to show up.

Also on your can, consider a 45 can. More universal than dedicated 9 and I can not hear the difference on any of mine. Just now I have a number of 45s and plenty of 9 cans but only one 45 can. If I would have just used the universal 45 from the start, no issues.





I like my SBR'ed MPX but it stays in the safe and the SBRed scorpion is what goes to the range the most. No gas in the face suppressed and just runs on any ammo. My MPX will gas ya out suppressed and can be picky what its fed. Dont get me wrong I sill like the SIG, but the CZ just edges it out.

The real question for the Scorpions in the classifieds is "why do they sell so quick"?! The last one I bought was up for less than a day NIB and the seller had gotten into B&Ts. Sold the CZ for B&T mag $. No, not really but the Scopians are extremely good value for their performance. The last CZ mag I bought was $14 new. Last B&T APC45 mag I bought was $101 each. Dam B&Ts are addicting but diminishing returns $ wise when the Scorpions perform so well.

I have a silencerco Omega 9k and 45k and can hear a difference. The 45 k is quieter with 9mm.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Believe me it chapped me good. Wife was asking about a .380 to keep in the car and keep at work. I had in the past had a few of these. Bersa. Told her pick one up. They are cheap and normally work great. I had no idea they had come out with a double stack version. She comes home one day from the gun shop with it. At first I thought, hey nice. Came factory with rubber grips like Pachmayer's which I have always loved. Then I went to buy some mags and that was a slap in the face. There may by now be some after market mags for these, have never looked. The OEM mags are well made but damn!
Bersa makes, or did make a couple really nice full size pistols too. They were victims of the same damn thing. Mags were as much as the pistol by the time you bought half a dozen or so. Looked at one in .45 one time. Price was very nice, pistol felt and looked really nice, then I looked at the price of the mags. Same thing, only available from the importer at VERY high price. The mags were the only thing that kept me from walking out of that shop with the pistol that day.
Edit: One other problem with these is of course can't buy or sell them on Ebay since they are over 10. I have long found mags that are harder to find and or expensive can always be found there if they are 10 or under. So if wife decided to sell the pistol would be a PITA to try to sell the mags now since I can't just toss them on Ebay.

I tell a buddy that if I knew then what I know now I'd get a high maintenance girlfriend. It's be cheaper!

 

[nosbocaj]

I'd strongly recommend the B&T GHM9 for your first foray into the magical world of PCC. I've had mine for a few months now and I absolutely love it. For what you get, it's a fantastic value and is a MUCH better shooter than a Scorpion. In fact, I just sold my Scorpion. There's a reason B&T named it a GHM (for Grasshopper Mouse). The image below is engraved on the top of the receiver

In all seriousness though, the Scorpion is still a great PCC with excellent aftermarket support. They're also much cheaper and easier to come by. You can't go wrong with either, but if you have a bit extra to spend, I'd go with a GHM9. Mine is pictured below in it's current state with an Obsidian 9 mounted. I love it so much I bought the integral SD kit (waiting on Form 4 for the proprietary suppressor).

 

[Helocat]

I'd strongly recommend the B&T GHM9 (SNIP) I love it so much I bought the integral SD kit (waiting on Form 4 for the proprietary suppressor).

hehehe selling your Scorpian funded that brace for your GHM9! I know I just bought the same set up for my APC10. ouch.


Last yr I walked into Curts Discount Shooter Supply and they had two B&T APC9-SD's. I left with one, well minus the integrated can. It cleared just over a month ago, wow it's extremely quiet with SUBs. You can shoot supers as well and yes it does slow them down to SUB speeds, but at least with my 124gr supers, it has a pop to it. 165gr Subs spooky quite. I am sure it sounds the same on the GHM9,


Photo from B&T. I have the AimPoint Microdot on the B&T release as well. But have not SBRd mine as of yet, and of course, I am missing those 4 dots near the trigger! Otherwise looks similar with an ugly SB brace. The OEM sliding brace for the tail hook like you have looks/feels way better.

 

[cookie]

Full auto would be fun if they weren't so costly etc.

 

[CamaroDMD]

Sure you already know this, you can own the uninstalled kit why you wait for your stamp to show up.

My understanding is I can't buy the barrel until I have the tax stamp to avoid having an SBR in constructed possession. Is that right?

The way I figure it, I will buy all the other parts when in stock as you suggest as they come into stock.

Also on your can, consider a 45 can. More universal than dedicated 9 and I can not hear the difference on any of mine. Just now I have a number of 45s and plenty of 9 cans but only one 45 can. If I would have just used the universal 45 from the start, no issues.

I'll look into that. I didn't give it much thought because I worried the diameter would be too big to fit inside the handguard. But, it's worth checking out. Thanks.

 

[CamoDeafie]

My understanding is I can't buy the barrel until I have the tax stamp to avoid having an SBR in constructed possession. Is that right?

The way I figure it, I will buy all the other parts when in stock as you suggest as they come into stock.

Actually, its the receiver/stock combination that you need to worry about. One could have a 16"+ upper on a pistol lower, no problems, add stock to it, with the 16" upper, maybe OK, but maybe not, because of "having been built from pistol" but put a shorter than 16" barrel on a rifle receiver/lower... SBR. See Thompson Center Contender for example. If stock +16" barrel on a pistol, fine, no problem, but if barrel under 16" on a rifle receiver, regardless of brace or stock, SBR.

 

[joken]

I bought a 9mm upper and lower from PSA for around $450 shipped and it's a hoot to shoot. It surprised me how accurate the 9mm is at 100 yards and more.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

The sbr waits are in the 2 week range now. I recently waited 11 days for a stevens 311 h to clear oregon bgc. I waited 17 days for my last sbs to clear the form 1. I would suggest getting the receiver ordered, get the serial number and an overall length measurement when you fill out the 4473. Likely your form 1 will be done in a similar time frame as the bgc. Then, order your sbr specific parts once the form 1 clears.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Actually, its the receiver/stock combination that you need to worry about. One could have a 16"+ upper on a pistol lower, no problems, add stock to it, with the 16" upper, maybe OK, but maybe not, because of "having been built from pistol" but put a shorter than 16" barrel on a rifle receiver/lower... SBR. See Thompson Center Contender for example. If stock +16" barrel on a pistol, fine, no problem, but if barrel under 16" on a rifle receiver, regardless of brace or stock, SBR.

Actually the tc encore showed that you could revert it back and forth between pistol and rifle. Just remove stock before swapping in a sub 16 inch barrel. It isn't a maybe okay, it is a definitely okay per scotus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson-Center_Arms_Co.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Actually the tc encore showed that you could revert it back and forth between pistol and rifle. Just remove stock before swapping in a sub 16 inch barrel.

The problem is the the receiver. Ifnits a rifle receiver, no go on making it a pistol according to the bATFe. (How do they tell, probably the FFL forms)
On the other hand, ir its built from a pistol receiver no problems. Same issue with the shotguns from Serbu. Had to be a virgin receiver thats never had a stock or its a AOW.

 

[Stomper]

So, spend quite a bit of time here reading but I almost never post...not sure why. I just don't.

Is it because you know that I LOVE to pick on dentists?

 

[CamaroDMD]

Actually, its the receiver/stock combination that you need to worry about. One could have a 16"+ upper on a pistol lower, no problems, add stock to it, with the 16" upper, maybe OK, but maybe not, because of "having been built from pistol" but put a shorter than 16" barrel on a rifle receiver/lower... SBR. See Thompson Center Contender for example. If stock +16" barrel on a pistol, fine, no problem, but if barrel under 16" on a rifle receiver, regardless of brace or stock, SBR.

So lets say I bought the 16.2" Scorpion Carbine and filed an eForm 1. While I'm waiting for the tax stamp. Can I purchase the 5.3" barrel (for which I would have no other use for) or would that be potentially a problem?

 

[Alexx1401]

So lets say I bought the 16.2" Scorpion Carbine and filed an eForm 1. While I'm waiting for the tax stamp. Can I purchase the 5.3" barrel (for which I would have no other use for) or would that be potentially a problem?

I personally would not do this. The chances of it ever being a problem are beyond slim but, I just would not. If for some reason the feds find you with a rifle and a short barrel that fits it they could hammer you. Now of course most of us are not doing anything to get them to come visit us so what are the odds? I still just would not do it. I would wait till I had my stamp to order the barrel.

 

[CamoDeafie]

So lets say I bought the 16.2" Scorpion Carbine and filed an eForm 1. While I'm waiting for the tax stamp. Can I purchase the 5.3" barrel (for which I would have no other use for) or would that be potentially a problem?

Problem. If you bought the 5.3" scorpion pistol no problem, get form 1, efile while wait to get stock.

 

[Alexx1401]

A good example of this is the AR's. I have both an AR 9 (rifle) and an AR9 pistol with a brace. The lowers were never a rifle. So if someone wanted to check the pistol upper I have, I have a lower for it. Where this could be a problem is if someone buys an AR rifle. This is the only AR they have. Then they order a pistol upper and have it at home. Feds "could" say the person was trying to make an SBR since all they would have to do is pin the pistol upper onto the rifle lower. Constructive intent. I have a couple PCC's made by a place in OR who now makes a pistol version of the same guns. They sell the parts on their site to swap stuff around. To buy a pistol length barrel from them they demand you send them the Serial # showing you bought a pistol from them. Reason is if they sold me just the barrel, which I could just attach to one of my rifles it would make it an SBR. So they figure if have an pistol and rifle, then the pistol barrel I have a legal use for the short barrel.
As mentioned most of us are not doing anything to get the Feds to show up and check but, why push it has long been my motto. I am VERY tempted to try the .22 cans that are easy to make. Have multiple .22's set up to take a can. BEFORE I even order the parts to make one I will have the stamp in my possession first just for my own piece of mind. Why poke the bear.

 

[CamaroDMD]

I personally would not do this. The chances of it ever being a problem are beyond slim but, I just would not. If for some reason the feds find you with a rifle and a short barrel that fits it they could hammer you. Now of course most of us are not doing anything to get them to come visit us so what are the odds? I still just would not do it. I would wait till I had my stamp to order the barrel.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I thought this could be a problem if caught (not that they would have any reason to look). There is just no reason to take the risk. I'm also not in a huge rush. I'm still in the learning/planning phase. I suspect all this will cost around $3000 when it's all said and done (and that's a big expense for me) so I want to do my homework first.

Problem. If you bought the 5.3" scorpion pistol no problem, get form 1, efile while wait to get stock.

I don't think they make one with a 5.3" barrel. I see pistols with a barrel just over 7 inches which is longer than I want and one with a barrel right around 4.2 inches. With the handguard I want to run on it...the 4.2in barrel puts the suppressor too short (inside the handguard). So, either way I have to buy a different barrel and if I buy a pistol I also will need to buy a stock.

I think the smartest thing for me to do is buy the carbine and enjoy it stock while waiting for tax stamps. I can buy any aftermarket parts I want other than the barrel before the stamps come back.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

The problem is the the receiver. Ifnits a rifle receiver, no go on making it a pistol according to the bATFe. (How do they tell, probably the FFL forms)
On the other hand, ir its built from a pistol receiver no problems. Same issue with the shotguns from Serbu. Had to be a virgin receiver thats never had a stock or its a AOW.

My Encore was transferred to me as other. It was a bare receiver. All my ARs were bare recievers when I got them, IE other. And, in case anyone is wondering, I always assemble as a pistol first, even if it is for 5 minutes.

 

[6Corsa6]

Scorpion all the way.

View attachment 743544

What grip is that on your scorpion? Don't think I have seen one with side panels.
I take mine with me on just about every range session