How To Set Up a Safe Face To Face Sale

[etrain16]

One of the guys on the "Pay it forward" thread is a corrections officer. Nice guy, easy transaction.

As others have said:
1) good communications/setting expectations up front is good. I feel this begins in the ad (i.e. Need ODL, etc)
2) If your spidey senses tingle, cancel. Safety > possible issues.
3) Use the feedback ratings, as that helps us all.

Good luck.

Good points. I make my sales requirements very clear in my ads. If someone doesn't want to do my BOS or show me their CHL, they can ignore my ad - I don't want to surprise anyone at the sale location with this stuff.

But that said, I've had a number of ads over the years where I've been contacted by OOS folks trying to by my gun. And, they're usually not up front with that info - so I've gotten in the habit of asking where they're from in our early discussion/text/email. I don't know if they're just ignorant of the law (I do offer to do an FFL transfer if they pay for it - no one has taken me up on that yet), or if they're someone trolling for an illegal sale so they can 'catch you in the act' - I'd hope that doesn't actually happen, but you never know.

I had the OOS issue come up with me as the buyer when I set up a purchase with someone that listed their location in their ad as "the Dalles", only to find out after several discussions that they were actually coming from across the river in WA. I immediately stopped the sale and told them why. They told me it was fine and that they've done it before. I then explained that it was illegal and pointed them to the ATF website to read the rules for themselves. They told me to fork off, so I did. Probably only a matter of time before that catches up with the little turd.

 

[STUKA]

I've met everywhere.Numerous parking lots,including a McDonalds at 12 AM,because the guy worked swing shift.He was a member here.I ain't scuuurrrred.
I consider myself a good judge of character,and all it takes is a little common sense and street smarts to be able to tell if someone is on the level.If things go awry,I'll do what I need to do to defend myself.
Everyone I've met on the forum is stand up,and all it takes is a quick look at someones post count,trading stats,etc to know if they are "worthy".
As for BUYING,well-I have a lot of visible (and not so visible) tattoos,and often look pretty scroungy after work,as I'm a heavy truck and trailer mechanic.I sometimes worry what some of the more "straight" members will think of me,but it seems that the gift of gab usually sets people at ease.I've never been arrested in my life,but some people can't get past it I guess.I am quite aware that people judge,and usually for good reason,so no hard feelings against anyone on my part.
Be aware,I am judging YOU in return though!

 

[etrain16]

As for BUYING,well-I have a lot of visible (and not so visible) tattoos,and often look pretty scroungy after work,as I'm a heavy truck and trailer mechanic.I sometimes worry what some of the more "straight" members will think of me,but it seems that the gift of gab usually sets people at ease.I've never been arrested in my life,but some people can't get past it I guess.I am quite aware that people judge,and usually for good reason,so no hard feelings against anyone on my part.
Be aware,I am judging YOU in return though!

Some of the most trustworthy people I know are heavily tattooed and get very dirty doing their jobs. One of my co-workers who is a friend, is the kind of guy that you'd probably cross the street to avoid, looks really menacing, but is a straight up good guy. Looks are definitely part of the judging process, but if it stops there, you're probably missing out. How they act, talk, look around, etc. says more to me. And yeah, I'm one of those 'straight' members - no tats, etc., but I come out of the construction industry, so there was a time I was pretty grungy after work myself

 

[taylor]

The mood of this subject has changed radically from the same question asked a few years ago, the majority then had a more libertarian view and seemed to feel just being sure the buyer was an Oregon resident was enough(all that is required by law), and quite a few would refuse to show any ID at all.
Are we caving in to the pressure brought by anti-gun groups and doing what they want?

 

[etrain16]

The mood of this subject has changed radically from the same question asked a few years ago, the majority then had a more libertarian view and seemed to feel just being sure the buyer was an Oregon resident was enough(all that is required by law), and quite a few would refuse to show any ID at all.
Are we caving in to the pressure brought by anti-gun groups and doing what they want?

I don't know about others, but I deal with the current reality, like it or not. I simply want to be sure I've done what I can to cover my butt in a private sale. I do ask for a BOS, but it goes into the safe and will not come out unless the cops are at my door asking about that weapon - I want to be able to show I took precaution to verify the person who got it was legal to own, and to show I no longer own it.

I know some folks don't like that point of view, I understand, we simply won't be doing business. I don't see it as caving in, it's just the way things are right now, and until that changes, I'll continue to CMA.

 

[RicInOR]

The Bill of Sale may not totally protect you - depending upon what kind of protection you need.

The BOS can be useful in something like a collectors item - to continue the provenience. Have a firearm owned by someone famous, or used in a known encounter? To add value you need to have a good story and having paperwork helps that.

Are you in possession of a counterfeit bill - They will take it. Is that protected, cause they could arrest you.


Story from the news -
http://www.azcentral.com/story/mone.../classic-car-arizona-mistake-call12/10537381/
Bottom line - car had been stolen. Reported as such. Came up sometimes later and the State issued a new title. The state should not have done that but they did. Someone sees car after $15k in restoration. Cops come and seize car. Protected - not arrested for being in possession of stolen property. Not Protected, he is out that $15k.


The law says I can't sell across state lines without involving the Federalies. I don't like that law. But I need to comply. How would I explain my actions to those in the box - He looked like a nice boy? Or, I saw his state issued Id.

There are fake ID's of course. I went to one bar where at the door the copied your id - camera mounted above a kiosk, the bouncer placed it there and then it was recorded. Why - cause the bar had been sued by the state after some under age person had been involved. One id for the cops a different one for the bar. The bar wanting protection could then say - this is the ID they showed us, which appeared real.

 

[Thebastidge]

Just FYI. If anyone ever wanted o use my business for such a transaction, they would be welcome to either use us or NICs check/transfer ($20 fee) or just as a safe place to conduct the sale, that's fine with me. We've had people do both in the past.

I figure I'll either get a new customer or two out of it, or make a sale of something related, or just provide the community service of being a safe place.

 

[Joe13]

Just FYI. If anyone ever wanted o use my business for such a transaction, they would be welcome to either use us or NICs check/transfer ($20 fee) or just as a safe place to conduct the sale, that's fine with me. We've had people do both in the past.

I figure I'll either get a new customer or two out of it, or make a sale of something related, or just provide the community service of being a safe place.

:thumbs up:

 

[The Heretic]

All i need on a BOS is a name and signature - either way.

I am making a sale tomorrow and I will have two copies.

I believe the BOS protects both buyer and seller - for all the buyer knows the firearm is stolen, and for all the seller knows the buyer is some media hack from 60 minutes trying to do a vid on how easy it is to buy an "assault weapon".

It is just due diligence.

This way if the buyer needs to send the firearm somewhere for repair, or they want to sell it later, the S/N is for any reason and it comes back as stolen, then they have a defense that they bought it from someone, they didn't steal it.

If the firearm is later used in a crime, say someone steals it from the buyer but the buyer doesn't immediately know this, then the first person BATF/LEOs will visit is the person who bought it from an FFL. The BOS allows the seller a defense against charges.

If it comes to gun confiscation by the government, all such documentation comes up missing for one reason or another. Besides, I rarely sell firearms - last time I did was 5 years ago at a gun show; traded some firearms I inherited for some other firearms at a gun show.

 

[The Heretic]

Anybody can be anybody on the internet.

 

[Redcap]

I am armed and I always take a friend (sometimes two) who also carries concealed to deals. A quick glance at your ID (just to make sure you actually reside in state...had a few instances where a buyer didn't), no bill of sale, no bullbubblegum...cash and goods change hands, a handshake happens and everyone walks away happy.

If, for any reason, it feels sketchy...I walk.

 

[BigStick]

You have some good advice here so far. I would also add to bring a friend if you still feel uncomfortable.

 

[Bacchus]

Maybe at a gun show. I think folks sell their private firearms there.

I sold a rifle case in the parking lot at Home Depot. Just a few bucks, but I didn't want the buyer to know where I lived. He might cleverly infer that I was a gun owner, and that guns were in my house.

 

[Allfat]

Maybe at a gun show. I think folks sell their private firearms there.

Any firearm sales at gun shows must have background check's done, at least in Oregon. That includes private sale. Not a bad place to go, just be aware of the laws.

I have sold a gun in the parking lot of a gun store, as well as purchased a gun in a parking lot of a Fisherman's Marine. Both times, just be aware of your surroundings and be safe.

 

[RVTECH]

Like others have said 'pre-qualify' the buyer with phone & email communication. Get a dialog going and LISTEN for any 'buzz' words that make you feel 'uneasy' or raise 'red flags'. And NEVER, EVER be in a position where you 'have' to sell in a hurry, need the money etc. or you may be inclined to overlook problem buyers. Quite frankly after reading many of the disgruntled 'seller' stories it is my opinion most could have been avoided if he seller had done a better job of pre qualifying the buyer and not been wanting (or needing) to sell so quickly. I have read way too many stories where he seller referenced continual attempts to meet with the buyer, being given excuses for no-shows (yet still being BS'd into meeting hither an yon) for what becomes a no-sell or a bad deal.

 

[3MTA3]

I really appreciate all the input I've gotten. I've sold two of the three pistols I have up for sale in a fairly short time without incident. Both the forum members I've met in person were great to deal with as were those that I had conversations with but did not come to an agreement.

 

[The Heretic]

After all that, I forgot to take a BOS to the sale.

 

[3MTA3]

After all that, I forgot to take a BOS to the sale.

I used the pdf that MTpockets provided, then printed it after filling in the specific information on the pistol. I then placed the copy with the pistol to prevent human error (I'm an expert at human error, just ask my wife). At the sale all I'm gathering is name and noting that the Oregon DL was valid. The buyer signs the disclaimer at the top, and we both sign as buyer and seller respectively. I don't record addresses, DL numbers or CCL numbers.

I'm with The Heretic as the intent is to protect myself (say the buyer sells to someone who sells to someone and five years later the police show up asking me questions) and the the buyer who doesn't know if the gun is clean and may run into a similar issue later.

 

[The Heretic]

I'm so addle brained I set the rifle against the door so I wouldn't leave for work without the rifle (it is an hour drive back to my house). I meant to create a BOS at work and print it out there (my home printer doesn't work), but work was so distracting I forgot until I was in the car and on my way to Salem.

 

[97321]

You could bring a friend with you as well. Let the other person know in advance. I've had others do this when I've met them. It didn't bother me at all.