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Fred, what is the caliber of the dies you bought?
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How do you handle a member who misrepresents item he is selling won't refund $$$
- Thread Starter fredball
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I sent you a pm
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They were listed "used no problems". Then you contact them and they say "You should have known they were broken and missing parts".
If all the facts are true and correct, this is nothing more than blatant misrepresentation. Name names to protect the rest of us who may do business in the future. ALSO, leave a horribly bad rating. Ratings need to reflect the individual doing business.
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Sounds to me like there may be a problem with the seller. It would be different if the guy was saying that because you are a newbie on hand loading that you must be doing something wrong. But if the guy really is having the attitude that it is your fault simply because you bought the die set after inspecting them, I call BS on the seller's part if that is true.
I recently bought a die set from someone on the forum. He met me and it was mostly dark so my inspection was brief. Guess what. The die set worked. I would expect nothing less and think it is fair for anyone on this forum to expect the same. Isn't that why those of us that buy/sell/trade on here, come here to shop, instead of just anywhere? I am not so naive as to think that everyone and every deal should make everyone happy. But if we can't hold someone to claiming "used No problems" as meaning that, then what is the point? I would like to know who I should avoid doing business with based on others opinion, feedback and more important, WARNINGS!!
I recently bought a die set from someone on the forum. He met me and it was mostly dark so my inspection was brief. Guess what. The die set worked. I would expect nothing less and think it is fair for anyone on this forum to expect the same. Isn't that why those of us that buy/sell/trade on here, come here to shop, instead of just anywhere? I am not so naive as to think that everyone and every deal should make everyone happy. But if we can't hold someone to claiming "used No problems" as meaning that, then what is the point? I would like to know who I should avoid doing business with based on others opinion, feedback and more important, WARNINGS!!
Wow, I just found this tread and I am seller of the dies. A link to the sold ad can be found at http://www.northwestfirearms.com/reloading-classifieds/158843-sold.html which originally included pictures of each of the dies and sold them all together for $90 (including a new set of de priming pins). It seems that Fred wants to convict me in the court of public forums but, he has not told you the whole story. Since he posted this I feel I must respond. The complete PM corresponds is below for everyone to review and draw your own conclusions (Mods feel free to confirm).
I posted the ad as the dies being used which they were. I had personally reloaded ammo with two of the sets of dies so I knew they worked. The other sets I bought and had not used and they appear to be all in tacked. I offered more than once to have a third party look at the dies and if they were not useable I would refund his money. Countless times he would not respond to this offer but respond with personal attacks and trying to bully me into refunding his money. If appears to me the Fred changed his mind with buying used dies after a friend said he should buy new carbide dies. Fred looked for countless reasons to say the dies were bad.
I had set up a meeting for this Friday but, given how aggressive Fred has gotten I have called off the meeting. I have told Fred to mail the dies back to me and if they are in the same state which he received them I would send him a refund in full. After I received the dies I will post them in the pay if forward section for free (one per person) with the person only having to pay for postage and then comment on how the dies worked for them.
FREDBALL
Todd, I had a guy I know that has been reloading for over 25years take a look at the dies, I bought from you and this is what he said
.223 dies need to be small base dies ,you cannot use them to reload for your AR15
9mm dies look all beat up and are rusty & missing de primer pin
45acp dies are rusty beat up and missing the expander tool & de primer pin.
38 dies are in very bad shape and all so missing the expander tool & de primer pin.
he goes on to say (I would not use these dies for anything other than spare parts they are in very poor condition)
Todd, I bought these from you not knowing much about them or reloading in general as I am just learning about the process ,I took your word they were in working order and I'm sure you thought so too., I found out from a professional they are not in working order .
I am sending you this pm because you have a very good trader rating and I felt comfortable doing business with you based on that factor , I would like to return these dies to you for a refund.
TOVO
I must say I am shocked to hear from a month after our sale. For the condition of the dies I post they were used and thus the price reflects this. You also looked at them at time of purchase and there was no comment then or after you got home. I did not claim to be an expert and I used the 38 special dies to hand load thousands of shells. I have also used the 9mm for a few hundred rounds. I purchased and 45 ACP and .223 to reload but, never got around to it. All the pistol dies are three die sets so I am confused to why your friend said something is missing. For the de primer pins you saw what was missing and there were a new set of pins included.
FREDBALL
OK first off It has not even been a week or 7days since I bought these from you,We did the deal last tuesday NOT A MONTH AS YOU SAY all so I mentioned I just got a reloader for x-mas And I didn't know much about the hobby yet , you said you and your wife were into cowboy action and did use these dies, so either way I didn't know anything about condition I had no way of knowing condition ,so my not calling you had no bearing on anything I didn't know condition was bad . till I had them looked at
TOVO
Sorry sorry sorry, you are correct. I looked at our email sting above and it said the 13th and I do remember you talking about your reloader for Christmas. Anyways the problems seems like the condition of the dies. I contest the dies are useable and you say they are not usable at all. Correct?
FREDBALL
I am a newbie to the reloading world, My friend has been reloading for many years and said the dies are not anything he would use and therefore not something I should start out with, he suggested I buy new and stick with carbide period. I only bought all of them thinkinbg I would get a better deal on more than the 2 I was wanting 45acp and 223 but at this point neither of them are useable for my needs . missing components 45acp,and not the right die for 223 ar 15 reloading. that said these maybe good for someone with more experience than me . thanks
TOVO
My last PM was that I believe we are gotten to the root cause of why you do not want to dies. Your reloading buddy said to get new carbide dies. I am willing to have a 3rd party look at the dies and if they feel the dies will not function I will return your money. I want to be fair but, just because they are used which I stated in my ad and now you don't want used dies I don't see how that is my fault
FREDBALL
you want to be fair I have done nothing with these broken dies give me back my money .
I would not have a problem with used dies these are way past used .
FREDBALL
No heres whats has happened you sold me dies that you said were used ok no problem when I met you to buy them is when you said they were in disrepair and would need some money to fix them in the pouring down rain I was rushed, then I had them looked at only to find out several of them won't work in the condition they are in missing parts and rusted , prior to that you said you never used them and that your wife and you were into coy boy shooting and did not any use any of these calibers now you say you have loaded thousands of rounds with them, you knew I knew nothing about reloading so you found a sucker me, to buy them and you don't want to give me back my money cuz you know you'll never be able to sell these dies to anyone else period . I have a perfect trader rating and I have never sold anyone anything that didn't work exactly as stated, And I would refund anyone their money on any deal on this site to save my good name this is the first time I have purchased any reloading equipment used and I get screwed out of 90.00 you know I should have known something was fishy when you said I'll make someone a package deal .
funny you pull up in a 50thousand dollar car and you won't refund my $90.00 telling me I somehow should have known what I was buying from you was broken and would need extra money to repair .
FREDBALL
So what are you going to do to make this right or is this how you conduct business at zombie defense, screw over people by lying about description of broken tools then ignoring them after the sale
up till this deal I have had good luck with honest sellers on this site and have purchased many items, I guess my luck ran out when I did a deal with you, You need to make this right . man up and do the right thing . if like you say you had used these dies then there is now way you didn't know they were broken and rusted so bad you can't unscrew one set 9mm I have done a lot of running around to get good info about these tools and your hiding come out from your hiding spot and man up or are you not a man . I have contacted the moderators and sent them all my pm's to and from you and me and your original ad
TOVO
Personal attracts on people will not get your point across. Also trying to portray me as a bad person when it you whom is being hostile. I said the dies were used and they are. I have personally used two sets of the dies so I know they work. Again I have offered to have a third party look them over and if there is an issue I there option is the dies will not work I will gladly refund your money. For some reason you do not want to go this route as again I believe you now want new dies and are just finding reasons you believe to return them. Why should I expect a return on something that is not broken?
FREDBALL
so what kind of hoops do I have to jump thru to get this friend of yours look at the dies and tell me they are fine . PS I will be bringing someone I know to point out the obvious.
and like I have said from the get go I don't have a problem with used these are abused I paid for used not unusable . you know they are broken you admitted it when i opened the 45acp box broken deprimer pin
TOVO
We can get a meeting together with all parties to review the dies. Again I just need your email address to see if I can put something together. This has gotten way out of hand and it's good that you bring someone.
I posted the ad as the dies being used which they were. I had personally reloaded ammo with two of the sets of dies so I knew they worked. The other sets I bought and had not used and they appear to be all in tacked. I offered more than once to have a third party look at the dies and if they were not useable I would refund his money. Countless times he would not respond to this offer but respond with personal attacks and trying to bully me into refunding his money. If appears to me the Fred changed his mind with buying used dies after a friend said he should buy new carbide dies. Fred looked for countless reasons to say the dies were bad.
I had set up a meeting for this Friday but, given how aggressive Fred has gotten I have called off the meeting. I have told Fred to mail the dies back to me and if they are in the same state which he received them I would send him a refund in full. After I received the dies I will post them in the pay if forward section for free (one per person) with the person only having to pay for postage and then comment on how the dies worked for them.
FREDBALL
Todd, I had a guy I know that has been reloading for over 25years take a look at the dies, I bought from you and this is what he said
.223 dies need to be small base dies ,you cannot use them to reload for your AR15
9mm dies look all beat up and are rusty & missing de primer pin
45acp dies are rusty beat up and missing the expander tool & de primer pin.
38 dies are in very bad shape and all so missing the expander tool & de primer pin.
he goes on to say (I would not use these dies for anything other than spare parts they are in very poor condition)
Todd, I bought these from you not knowing much about them or reloading in general as I am just learning about the process ,I took your word they were in working order and I'm sure you thought so too., I found out from a professional they are not in working order .
I am sending you this pm because you have a very good trader rating and I felt comfortable doing business with you based on that factor , I would like to return these dies to you for a refund.
TOVO
I must say I am shocked to hear from a month after our sale. For the condition of the dies I post they were used and thus the price reflects this. You also looked at them at time of purchase and there was no comment then or after you got home. I did not claim to be an expert and I used the 38 special dies to hand load thousands of shells. I have also used the 9mm for a few hundred rounds. I purchased and 45 ACP and .223 to reload but, never got around to it. All the pistol dies are three die sets so I am confused to why your friend said something is missing. For the de primer pins you saw what was missing and there were a new set of pins included.
FREDBALL
OK first off It has not even been a week or 7days since I bought these from you,We did the deal last tuesday NOT A MONTH AS YOU SAY all so I mentioned I just got a reloader for x-mas And I didn't know much about the hobby yet , you said you and your wife were into cowboy action and did use these dies, so either way I didn't know anything about condition I had no way of knowing condition ,so my not calling you had no bearing on anything I didn't know condition was bad . till I had them looked at
TOVO
Sorry sorry sorry, you are correct. I looked at our email sting above and it said the 13th and I do remember you talking about your reloader for Christmas. Anyways the problems seems like the condition of the dies. I contest the dies are useable and you say they are not usable at all. Correct?
FREDBALL
I am a newbie to the reloading world, My friend has been reloading for many years and said the dies are not anything he would use and therefore not something I should start out with, he suggested I buy new and stick with carbide period. I only bought all of them thinkinbg I would get a better deal on more than the 2 I was wanting 45acp and 223 but at this point neither of them are useable for my needs . missing components 45acp,and not the right die for 223 ar 15 reloading. that said these maybe good for someone with more experience than me . thanks
TOVO
My last PM was that I believe we are gotten to the root cause of why you do not want to dies. Your reloading buddy said to get new carbide dies. I am willing to have a 3rd party look at the dies and if they feel the dies will not function I will return your money. I want to be fair but, just because they are used which I stated in my ad and now you don't want used dies I don't see how that is my fault
FREDBALL
you want to be fair I have done nothing with these broken dies give me back my money .
I would not have a problem with used dies these are way past used .
FREDBALL
No heres whats has happened you sold me dies that you said were used ok no problem when I met you to buy them is when you said they were in disrepair and would need some money to fix them in the pouring down rain I was rushed, then I had them looked at only to find out several of them won't work in the condition they are in missing parts and rusted , prior to that you said you never used them and that your wife and you were into coy boy shooting and did not any use any of these calibers now you say you have loaded thousands of rounds with them, you knew I knew nothing about reloading so you found a sucker me, to buy them and you don't want to give me back my money cuz you know you'll never be able to sell these dies to anyone else period . I have a perfect trader rating and I have never sold anyone anything that didn't work exactly as stated, And I would refund anyone their money on any deal on this site to save my good name this is the first time I have purchased any reloading equipment used and I get screwed out of 90.00 you know I should have known something was fishy when you said I'll make someone a package deal .
funny you pull up in a 50thousand dollar car and you won't refund my $90.00 telling me I somehow should have known what I was buying from you was broken and would need extra money to repair .
FREDBALL
So what are you going to do to make this right or is this how you conduct business at zombie defense, screw over people by lying about description of broken tools then ignoring them after the sale
up till this deal I have had good luck with honest sellers on this site and have purchased many items, I guess my luck ran out when I did a deal with you, You need to make this right . man up and do the right thing . if like you say you had used these dies then there is now way you didn't know they were broken and rusted so bad you can't unscrew one set 9mm I have done a lot of running around to get good info about these tools and your hiding come out from your hiding spot and man up or are you not a man . I have contacted the moderators and sent them all my pm's to and from you and me and your original ad
TOVO
Personal attracts on people will not get your point across. Also trying to portray me as a bad person when it you whom is being hostile. I said the dies were used and they are. I have personally used two sets of the dies so I know they work. Again I have offered to have a third party look them over and if there is an issue I there option is the dies will not work I will gladly refund your money. For some reason you do not want to go this route as again I believe you now want new dies and are just finding reasons you believe to return them. Why should I expect a return on something that is not broken?
FREDBALL
so what kind of hoops do I have to jump thru to get this friend of yours look at the dies and tell me they are fine . PS I will be bringing someone I know to point out the obvious.
and like I have said from the get go I don't have a problem with used these are abused I paid for used not unusable . you know they are broken you admitted it when i opened the 45acp box broken deprimer pin
TOVO
We can get a meeting together with all parties to review the dies. Again I just need your email address to see if I can put something together. This has gotten way out of hand and it's good that you bring someone.
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I sent them back in same condition they were when I got them from you at I sent them back at 15:34 pm today ,btw today is exactly 7days since the deal .
Shipping was $12.35 + $90.00 for a total of $102.35 is what the cashiers check or money order should be written for here is delivery conformation 9505 5000 2576 4021 0005 82
I'm actually glad you posted this so as to show others I am not hiding anything and as You noticed I never mentioned your name or anything that would incriminate you in any way
that's not my style Todd .
But here I am again at your mercy Todd I'm doing everything I can to finish this .
Shipping was $12.35 + $90.00 for a total of $102.35 is what the cashiers check or money order should be written for here is delivery conformation 9505 5000 2576 4021 0005 82
I'm actually glad you posted this so as to show others I am not hiding anything and as You noticed I never mentioned your name or anything that would incriminate you in any way
that's not my style Todd .
But here I am again at your mercy Todd I'm doing everything I can to finish this .
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He is right, he did not mention your name!
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I am not sure about expecting the seller to cover the shipping costs if the real reason for the return is a new found preference for brand new dies.
Personally I would like to see an opinion of these dies by an independent individual.
Personally I would like to see an opinion of these dies by an independent individual.
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Wow, what a mess! I'm really surprised things like this don't happen more often. Surprisingly they dont. I have no idea who is at fault here and my eyes kind of hurt from reading all of that 
good luck gentleman, I hope it gets worked out somehow.
good luck gentleman, I hope it gets worked out somehow.- Status
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