How bad is I.O., really?

[AMT]

You've mentioned originally that you were wanting opinions on an AK platform rifle. Then you mentioned that you were going to get an AR too.

FWIW...... I wanted to build an AR and see how cheap i could do it. I got an AR lower and bought the cheapest complete PSA lower build kit, with complete upper, that i could get (on sale too). After getting some PMAG's i ran about 150 .223 and 5.56 rounds through it flawlessly.

Then i decided i wanted something different as "everyone has a 223/556 AR". So i went back onto PSA and bought a blemish 7.62x39 complete upper for the AR platform. Then i tracked down an ACS magazing made for the AR platform, for the 7.62x39 round.

Popped off the 223/556 upper, popped on the 7.62x39 upper, loaded up the magazine with some 7.62x39 rounds. Ran about 100 rounds through it without a single issue.

So now i have both the 223/556 and 7.62x39 option just by changing out the upper and magazine.

Just a thought if you are are wanting to be able to shoot either caliber and that is why you are asking/mentioning both caliber/platforms.

Now if you are wanting 2 rifles, 1 AK and 1 AR, i cannot help with any opinions on an AK.

 

[OldTengu]

That's an awesome option that I hadn't thought of.

 

[Camelfilter]

Have an I/O underfolder we've run around 500 thru. No idea on how many the previous owner ran thru it. We like it.

Not precision, but that's most AK's anyways. There are a few exceptions. However if near on anyone can pick it up and hit a man sized target out several hundred yards in irons, then that's the point of an AK.

Our I/O does it no prob, being a touch lighter mayhaps easier for some folk, being an underfolder so no great cheek weld, mayhaps a touch harder for other folks.

Not a gun to get rock chucks with out at several hundred yards though...

A scoped Vepr? Sure no problem.

Want to get an AR as well?

Shucks it's a great time to get entry level ones for excellent prices!! Just this past week saw on this board an unfired Ruger AR556 at $350, we bought up a nicely upgraded one for a bit more from another member (still under list price), and yet another member had an outstanding unfired PSA build at $450 (with easily an extra $200 worth of time and upgrades on it).

 

[OldTengu]

Have an I/O underfolder we've run around 500 thru. No idea on how many the previous owner ran thru it. We like it.

Not precision, but that's most AK's anyways. There are a few exceptions. However if near on anyone can pick it up and hit a man sized target out several hundred yards in irons, then that's the point of an AK.

Our I/O does it no prob, being a touch lighter mayhaps easier for some folk, being an underfolder so no great cheek weld, mayhaps a touch harder for other folks.

Not a gun to get rock chucks with out at several hundred yards though...

A scoped Vepr? Sure no problem.

Want to get an AR as well?

Shucks it's a great time to get entry level ones for excellent prices!! Just this past week saw on this board an unfired Ruger AR556 at $350, we bought up a nicely upgraded one for a bit more from another member (still under list price), and yet another member had an outstanding unfired PSA build at $450 (with easily an extra $200 worth of time and upgrades on it).

I saw both of those! Was a bummer to have to pass this time around.

 

[mike1281]

Suggestions as to reliable mid range ak platform rifles. Forgot part of that sentence

As far as mid range goes I am a HUGE fan of the Norinco akm's, if you can find them. I have several and have owned several more. They were very well made. They come up every now and then on here or armslist in the 650-850 dollar price range.

 

[Boboclown]

WASR is cheap. For few extra dollars over I.O you can get WASR-10. Why even consider I.O when WASR is there? You can also get a N-PAP cheap as well.

Would be better off getting either of those instead of an I.O. Conversion is all that's needed for the NPAP to use double stack magazines. WASR is ready to go out of box, though I'd get surplus wood for it (which can be had pretty cheap too).

Century Arms N-PAP M70 Black 7.62x39mm 16.25-inch 10Rds
Century Arms GP WASR-10 Black/ Wood 7.62X39 30 rd 16.25 inch With Military Stock

 

[Porter]

I have quite alot of experience with AK'S , my opinion is for a first AK is to spend a little more and get a newer production Wasr10. IO's failures are numerous and can be verified all over the internet so do your homework. The wasr10 will last your lifetime and then some and perform just as good as the higher brand AK'S on the market. When it comes to AK'S my rule as well as the majority of guys into AK will be to go combloc only, as they have perfected this simple rifle. Again do your research as there are many guys on youtube that you can learn alot from. Start with AK operators union, or go on the AK Files and read up. There's my .02, good luck with your purchase.

 

[loofa]

You could buy an IWI Galil Ace chambered in either 7.62x39 or .308. Probably more than you want to spend, though.

 

[titsonritz]

When it comes to AK'S my rule as well as the majority of guys into AK will be to go combloc only, as they have perfected this simple rifle.

This is worth repeating.

If I was looking for an entry AK and not in a big hurry, I'd keep my eyes open for an SAR-1. I have had several and all were nicer than the WASRs I've seen

 

[Porter]

Should be noted that newer production wasr10s seem to have solved the quality control issues of past 10/63s. I am an arsenal guy but would have no issues buying a wasr10/RH10/M&M 10 if your a fan of the 90 degree gas block. OP I may be selling a nice M&M10 here very soon with combloc customs red wood furniture or full tactical look depending on what your after. If any interest PM me. I am after a LWRC DI AR and one of my 6 AKs needs to go.

 

[Boboclown]

If you find a WASR 10/63 that's in good shape go for it. I traded an SKS for one and it had straight sights and a smooth action. Not all 10/63s were that way, but they do have better wood than the current POS CAI puts on them.

However, new WASR 10s don't have canted sights or a rough action, and comes with the RAK-1 trigger (the ONLY good thing CAI makes) which is better than the G2 that older WASRs came with. Just replace the wood with surplus and GTG.

 

[Porter]

Boboclown is correct by my experiences.

 

[OldTengu]

Thanks again! I.o. was never really a consideration, but, given that hipoint has a ton of detractors, and seems to make a much more functional and reliable product than most are willing to credit them with, I wanted to see if anyone had any experience with one that might negate what I'd heard, and seen, to be true. It seems that I can generally pay less for a better quality rifle in this case, and will do so unless someone offers up a used io for like 200 bucks. Probably even then.

 

[Boboclown]

You can also spend a little bit more and get a WASR-10 that's threaded and has a bayonet lug.

 

[OldTengu]

That seems likely to happen.

 

[Boboclown]

Century Arms Romanian GP WASR AK47, 7.62X39, Wood Stock, Muzzle Break, 30 Rd Magpul Mag- CENT RI1805N

This is the model with bayonet lug and threaded barrel. You can get yugo/serbian BHO magazines for $9 a pop.

 

[OldTengu]

Century Arms Romanian GP WASR AK47, 7.62X39, Wood Stock, Muzzle Break, 30 Rd Magpul Mag- CENT RI1805N

This is the model with bayonet lug and threaded barrel. You can get yugo/serbian BHO magazines for $9 a pop.

That's awesome! I've been seeing the io for about 7, and was thinking about a grand, so I still have plenty left for either ammo or another gun!

 

[OldTengu]

ARMSLIST - For Sale: Inter ordinance ak47 IODM2009 underfold 7.62 39 IO inc
Here's one

 

[Porter]

Talk him down a bit?
ARMSLIST - For Sale/Trade: WASR 10

 

[OldTengu]

Talk him down a bit?
ARMSLIST - For Sale/Trade: WASR 10

It's at least a good excuse for a short road trip. Definitely a nice rifle.