home defense in a medical marijuana grow house

[hermannr]

I will say your friend needs to get out of the area he is in and get more rural and away from the high crime area. If some criminal finds he/she has marijuana, the probabilities are very good the criminals will do their best to steal it.

What I suggest for any MM grower, you tell NO-ONE, not becasue of theft by the ATF, but because of the high probability of theft by the local BG. It is just like brewing beer, making wine, or distilling spirits...you are fine for your personal consumption...it is only when you sell it that you can get in trouble. The old saying is true..."loose lips sink ships"

Up here on this mountain the black DEA helicopter did a slow sweep last fall (haven't seen it this year yet) and the grapevine was, if they saw 15 plants or less, they let it slide...they did bust a 40,000 plant grow op in the Pasayten Wilderness though.

There is no-one that needs a SD weapon more than someone that is known to have MM. As long as it iis a controlled substance, somewhere along the line someone WILL try steal it. However, yes, the DEA will tack on a firearms charge if they raid you and find firearms.

Hopefully this gal in Jackson Co will get a hearing at the US Supreme Court, and the court will find there is a public interest in allowing people to defend themselves regardless of their particular illness. After all, the feds themselve supply high quality MM to certain persons, and have since the 70's.

 

[The B]

i dont know how growers can take the anxiety. we did a roof over in park rose the other day and a dude had a grow in his backyard... it stunk up the whole neighborhood and from the roof, we could see about 15 mature plants chillin behind a tarp screen. fortunately for them, i have absolutely no interest in marijuana or stealing it.. but if i was a dirt-bag, i'd know right where to go.

i did observe that there were several people in the house... tatted out, wife-beaters, burly pickup trucks, hats on backwards, sunglasses on cloudy days (eyeroll)... at the house at all times. people came and left all day, but somebody was always there. im sure thats a strategic move. but what's a guy or two gonna do against a crew of aggressive young dirtbags with AKs and shotguns?

it's a freaken invitation to disaster. i never did see any kids, and i pray they dont have any.

all that said, and all criticisms aside, let me emphasize- i totally support their right to do it.

 

[Misterbill]

so, i have a friend of a friend (and i really do mean that, it's not me, just someone i know that i said i would research for) who grows medical marijuana. this person grows medical marijuana according to local laws and follows all the rules. unfortunately, they just had to move to a neighborhood that isn't very safe. their property has been shot up during random gang violence. they're afraid of owning a firearm in the case that it brings more charges down on them if the feds raid their house.
the question is, if they're abiding by all the local and state laws pertaining to growing medical marijuana, how does that factor in to defending their home and property from gangs and thugs? can one own a firearm for home/personal defense when one grows medical marijuana in oregon without incurring charges? if the federal government were to raid the house in violation of local laws, would criminal charges be worse?

Your friend is dealing pot. Let's not quibble. 15 plants is equivalent to several POUNDS of MJ. At $300 per ounce ( <broken link removed> ) thats what? $25k or so?

While I firmly believe MJ should be legalized, the fact is that it's a crime. And if your buddy decides to profit form something that's illegal (federal law trumps state law) he's taking a very foolish chance IMO both from the consequences of the law AND from being a place to grab a pretty big score for a criminal.

I've seen good people get hammered over messing around with selling/growing pot. Yes, it's harmless. But the consequences can be horrible and life-changing. IMO it's a very, very bad idea. He can smoke all the pot he wants and never have a legal problem unless he's an idiot. Once you cross the threshold of "manufacture," you are looking at major consequences. Consequences that far, FAR exceed any benefit I can see.

$50k a year or so is peanuts compared the price of several years in prison. And no, there is no "magic number." If he gets unlucky they can hammer him for years for even ONE plant. And there's no way in the world he's gonna convince a federal judge that 15 plants was for "personal use."

 

[Gunner3456]

After all, the feds themselve supply high quality MM to certain persons, and have since the 70's.

They also supply high quality weapons to illegal smugglers of the stuff, LOL.

 

[apf]

They also supply high quality weapons to illegal smugglers of the stuff, LOL.

Supplying lots of guns in an effort to catch those that are trying to get said guns. What could go wrong there? Totally an honest mistake. Tax dollars at work...

This whole MM thing is a mess. The government needs to stop treating it so harshly, turn it into the same kind of tax collector as alcohol and cigarettes, figure out ways to regulate it to keep people safe, and be done with it. Don't smoke and drive, don't smoke and use firearms, don't give it to minors, and give the government their 30%+. Everyone is happy. Right?

Until then (hopefully until) it just isn't worth it to use it medicinally, let alone try to profit off of it. Still, what a messed up choice to force on (some) people: be in crippling pain and have the right to defend yourself, or get relief from that pain for the price of being defenseless?

 

[BigCat]

Bottom line is, if someone is LEGALLY growing, and LEGALLY owns a firearms, there is nothing to charge. Not sure where all the confusion is coming from on this topic?

 

[Gunner3456]

Bottom line is, if someone is LEGALLY growing, and LEGALLY owns a firearms, there is nothing to charge. Not sure where all the confusion is coming from on this topic?

The feds don't recognize a state's permission to grow or possess. There are federal laws against it, and if you get busted by the feds for growing or possessing and get convicted of a felony in federal court, then you lose your right to own guns. The feds will also confiscate your guns when they confiscate your pot.

There are a couple of cases being considered for review by the US SC which might clear this up, but in the meantime if you want the right to keep and bear, IMHO, leave the mj chit alone.

 

[parallax]

heres a local news story of some people growing who had a home invasion and fired upon the suspects, I have not heard anyhting else about this story, so i dont know if they were charged with firing at the thieves or not.
<broken link removed>

 

[Scott]

The feds don't recognize a state's permission to grow or possess. There are federal laws against it, and if you get busted by the feds for growing or possessing and get convicted of a felony in federal court, then you lose your right to own guns. The feds will also confiscate your guns when they confiscate your pot.

There are a couple of cases being considered for review by the US SC which might clear this up, but in the meantime if you want the right to keep and bear, IMHO, leave the mj chit alone.

Thank God somebody with a mind..................... Federal law trumps all state laws period................................................... I don't care what people think it is a fact. And grows are not legal even if your state says so and through in some cheap AK's and and a few pounds and you can wind up in a ball of crap that you will regret............ Good post.......

 

[hermannr]

Federal law trumps all state laws period.

Wrong! Federal law is only good for things the federal government is enumerated in the constitution to regulate. Think of the first gun free school zone law...The supreme court said congress overstepped their bounds with that one. IMHO Congress overstepped their bounds with the replacement too, only no-one has ever been charged under it, so it has never been reviewed.

if you believe the US Constitution as written, there are really very few things the feds can regulate on a state level. Has that kept the feds out of state business? No, but is mostly because the states allow it, not because it is legal. Congress has stretched, distorted and shredded the interstate commerce clause so far, one of these days the states are not gong take it any more.

 

[Gunner3456]

Wrong! Federal law is only good for things the federal government is enumerated in the constitution to regulate. Think of the first gun free school zone law...The supreme court said congress overstepped their bounds with that one. IMHO Congress overstepped their bounds with the replacement too, only no-one has ever been charged under it, so it has never been reviewed.

if you believe the US Constitution as written, there are really very few things the feds can regulate on a state level. Has that kept the feds out of state business? No, but is mostly because the states allow it, not because it is legal. Congress has stretched, distorted and shredded the interstate commerce clause so far, one of these days the states are not gong take it any more.

You can fight the fed's control of "controlled substances" including prescription drugs from your prison cell. Who knows? You might win.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the feds overstepping their authority under the constitution, I'm just saying that there are a lot of people in federal prison right now for federal charges of possession and manufacturing of mj.

 

[Swedish K]

Back when I was working the gun show circuit you always knew who was involved in "questionable gun sales" and they rarely were noticed by law enforcement or charged with their crimes. It was often said that you could "probably" get away with selling up to 5 illegal weapons a year with little to no risk of arrest. On the flip side it was well known that the quickest way to a jail cell was to sell guns and dabble in the drug arena. I know of at least 8 people who worked the gun shows in the south west that ended up in prison over the years and all of them were known by insiders to deal in the occasional unregistered NFA item (either selling or collecting) and none of them were on anyone's radar until they started using illegal drugs and in one case growing medical marijuana for a family member with cancer.

Now the one thing I still wonder about is how the feds can have a tax stamp for something that they deem illegal....

 

[Misterbill]

Bottom line is, if someone is LEGALLY growing, and LEGALLY owns a firearms, there is nothing to charge. Not sure where all the confusion is coming from on this topic?

Have fun in Club Fed. That's possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever seen posted on this or any other gun forum.

Federal law trumps state law. That's the way it is. You can argue your case from your jail cell if you want, but that's the way it is today. If you have a medical mj card, you are a prohibited person under federal law as a habitual user.

If you think that's not true, I invite you to go take a large mj plant in a pot and sit in front of your local federal courthouse smoking a joint while carrying your concealed weapon, making sure all the marshals, DEA guys etc see you.

Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[Gunner3456]

Let me know how that works out for you.

From your federal prison cell.

Maybe your new cell mate Bubba will send the message for you.

 

[pchewn]

Federal law trumps state law. That's the way it is.

Not exactly..... Federal laws are independent from State laws. You can commit some act an have it violate Federal law while not violating any state law.... You can commit a different act and have it violate a State law, but not a Federal law. There is no "trumping" going on. Some acts that violate both laws are prosecuted both at the federal and the state level. Some people even JUST get out of prison on a state charge and then are arrested for the same act on federal charges. But no laws are "trumping" each other. They are independent laws enforced by independent police forces, prosecuted in independent courts, and punished in independent prisons.

 

[Gunner3456]

Not exactly..... Federal laws are independent from State laws. You can do some act an have it violate Federal law while not violating any state law.... You can do a different act and have it violate a State law, but not a Federal law. There is no "trumping" going on. Some acts that violate both laws are prosecuted both at the federal and the state level. Some people even JUST get out of prison on a state charge and then are arrested for the same act on federal charges. But no laws are "trumping" each other. They are independent laws enforced by independent police forces and prosecuted in independent courts, and punished in independent prisons.

You're missing the point. We have a state law which makes medical mj and even the growing of it for medical purposes legal. However, since it violates federal law and the feds will enforce the federal law despite the state's law making it legal, in this case federal law is trumping the state law. The feds will enforce their law and ignore the state law, and people will go to federal prison.

The state law is in direct conflict with federal laws, and the feds will trump the state.

I'm not saying it should be that way or even that it's constitutional. But, that's the way it is right now and if you want to keep your liberty, don't violate federal law.

 

[pchewn]

You're missing the point. We have a state law which makes medical mj and even the growing of it for medical purposes legal. However, since it violates federal law and the feds will enforce the federal law despite the state's law making it legal, in this case federal law is trumping the state law. The feds will enforce their law and ignore the state law, and people will go to federal prison.

I understand the point. We have a state law that makes MJ illegal in the general sense. We have a state law with an exception TO THE STATE LAW for holders of medical MJ cards. The feds have a law against MJ. The state laws and federal laws are INDEPENDENT. Federal law is not "TRUMPING" any state law.

Example: State of "Utopia" does not have ANY laws making ANYTHING illegal. Federal law says MJ is illegal. Feds prosecute a resident of "Utopia" for MJ. No "Utopian" state law has been "trumped". All laws have been prosecuted to the extent possible at both the state and federal level.

 

[Gunner3456]

I understand the point. We have a state law that makes MJ illegal in the general sense. We have a state law with an exception TO THE STATE LAW for holders of medical MJ cards. The feds have a law against MJ. The state laws and federal laws are INDEPENDENT. Federal law is not "TRUMPING" any state law.

Example: State of "Utopia" does not have ANY laws making ANYTHING illegal. Federal law says MJ is illegal. Feds prosecute a resident of "Utopia" for MJ. No "Utopian" state law has been "trumped". All laws have been prosecuted to the extent possible at both the state and federal level.

I can't help you.

 

[pchewn]

I can't help you.

So I "trumped" you?

 

[Gunner3456]

So I "trumped" you?

No, you only gave me the opinion that you must have ridden the short bus to school, if you went to school.