Hammonds get full pardon

[3MTA3]

Time for some google-fu.

Edit in: Backcountry Hunters and Anglers

They're based out of Montana, have big names in the industry for supporters and are pretty legitimate. However they are staunchly opposed to releasing "federal" land back to the states.
One of my main concerns/causes is the return of land to the counties and out from under federal control and waste.

Their statement has the Bundy occupation twisted up in the actions and sentences given to the Hammonds. The two are separate issues, and the actions of the Bundys are not relevant in the Hammond case. They need to exercise some critical thinking skills.

The Hammonds were prosecuted using anti terrorism laws to ensure a minimum five year sentence. How can they use terrorism laws against people without showing that they were terrorists? When the first Judge felt that the sentences were too harsh he reduced them. Later, sentences served, butt hurt prosecutors talked a second judge into increasing their sentences. How is this right? Does this mean they can go back and increase a traffic ticket I've already paid? How about anybody else that has served their time for an offense - can they just pick the ones they don't like and send them back for more like the Hammonds?

 

[SOrez]

The ninth circus will do what ever they please.

 

[pharmseller]

You obviously know nothing about this incident. The traffic stop was peaceful, and no one was hurt at that location. Both Ammon Bundy and Brian Cavalier, in another vehicle, both surrendered peacefully. Finicum decided to instead flee the scene. However, there was a roadblock further up the road that he eventually came to. That is where his vehicle ran off the road and got stuck, when he tried to drive around the roadblock. And that is where he was shot. Phone recordings from inside the vehicle showed Finicum being completely belligerent, taunting the officers, and constantly daring them to shoot him.

Some here may not like it, but clearconscience made a valid point here in this discussion. Ammon Bundy is alive and well today, and is a free man. And Finicum could indeed be that too, if he had only made the same wise choice that Bundy made.

I thought the recording also suggested that the van came under fire before Finicum ever showed a weapon, or even made a move to do so.

I'm pretty sure taunting and daring officers to shoot you isn't valid reason to do so. Sticks and stones and all that.




P

 

[GOG]

I heard gunfire on the tape before he ever exited the vehicle. Were they mass murderers fleeing the scene of a massacre? Just planted a bomb in Salem? No? Then why shoot at the truck?

They were traveling, not escaping.

But they were all tried and sentenced by the state in absentia. LaVoy just happened to be the only one executed.

The Bundy's & Hammond's are different but the same fundamental rights are/were at stake.

And "journalists" seem to be dumber than dirt or have an agenda so it's not surprising it was reported inaccurately.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Bout Damn Time!
Now for the Hammonds to Sue the everlovin chit outta the Feds and the State for violating their rights, seizing their land, and all sorts of stuff!
Time for Uranium One and all those dirty secrets to be exposed, and its time to dig up all the other skeletons buried under that sage brush! TIme for OryGun to see the truth, and its time for the Fed to Get the Eff outta State business!
Time for Sheriff Ward to get his azz arrested too, make that Mutherbubblegummer pay the piper for Refusing to Do his God Damn Job, Protecting the citizens of his counties rights! Same for that Chiteatinazzhol "Judge" Gratski Bubblegummer!

 

[Jamie6.5]

You obviously know nothing about this incident. The traffic stop was peaceful, and no one was hurt at that location. Both Ammon Bundy and Brian Cavalier, in another vehicle, both surrendered peacefully. Finicum decided to instead flee the scene. However, there was a roadblock further up the road that he eventually came to. That is where his vehicle ran off the road and got stuck, when he tried to drive around the roadblock. And that is where he was shot. Phone recordings from inside the vehicle showed Finicum being completely belligerent, taunting the officers, and constantly daring them to shoot him.

Some here may not like it, but clearconscience made a valid point here in this discussion. Ammon Bundy is alive and well today, and is a free man. And Finicum could indeed be that too, if he had only made the same wise choice that Bundy made.

Nobody tried to assassinate Bundy as he got out of his truck.
The FBI sniper on the FBI hostage rescue team deployed in the woods took two shots (that they know of) at Finicum as he exited his vehicle. Finicum's truck was hit multiple times by gunfire before he stepped out of the truck and was killed.
He (supposedly) got out of the truck to keep his family members & friends from getting shot.
I can't say as I blame him.

FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting
Watch the video.
What that FBI sniper did was wrong.
Every bit as wrong as what Horiuchi did at Ruby Ridge when he killed Vicky Weaver.
And he's being investigated for it.


ETA: I knew we would NEVER get to the truth of what happened on that highway when Finicum's truck was sequestered and no photos were allowed to be taken of it before it was destroyed.
It would have been very enlightening to count the bullet holes in that truck.
And neither the FBI nor the OSP was ever going to allow that to happen.

 

[Heyjoe]

Pleased as punch!

Maga, kids.

 

[mkwerx]

Whoever ordered and authorized the disposal and destruction of Finnicum's truck should face charges for destruction of evidence, as should everyone who carried it out. That was evidence in criminal investigation as well as evidence for a civil lawsuit they knew was coming. If a private citizen can get hit with that for destroying evidence before an investigation or before they know they are or will be investigated, then so should government goons. Just too bad the days of hanging the bastards are gone.

 

[U8395279]

I thought the recording also suggested that the van came under fire before Finicum ever showed a weapon, or even made a move to do so.

I'm pretty sure taunting and daring officers to shoot you isn't valid reason to do so. Sticks and stones and all that.

P

You seem as confused as Cameron.

There were TWO separate incidents. The initial stop of both vehicles by Federal and State agents. Only Finicum fled that stop, only to later crash his vehicle when he encountered a roadblock further down the road.

Cameron was claiming earlier that the traffic stop was an ambush. It wasn't. There was absolutely no shooting of any kind during the traffic stop. Bundy decided not to flee, and peacefully surrendered when they were initially stopped.

Just trying to set the record straight her.

 

[U8395279]

Nobody tried to assassinate Bundy as he got out of his truck.

That is exactly the point that I tried my best to explain to Cameron. There was no ambush of any kind at the traffic stop. Finicum could have peacefully given himself up then, just as Bundy did.

Instead, he made a different decision, and decided to flee the scene.

I hope you realize that these incidents took place at different locations, at different times.

 

[Jamie6.5]

That is exactly the point that I tried my best to explain to Cameron. There was no ambush of any kind at the traffic stop. Finicum could have peacefully given himself up then, just as Bundy did.

Instead, he made a different decision, and decided to flee the scene.

I hope you realize that these incidents took place at different locations, at different times.

Of course I do.
None of that changes the fact the the truck was taking bullets before Finicum ever brought it to a stop.
Is it okay now for federal and state officers to just shoot at and endanger, possibly kill, all the occupants of a vehicle in the "interest" of apprehending them?
Because that's what they did.
And as far as I'm concerned, no one should be defending that policy.
Finicum and the Bundys were on their way to meet with a law enforcement officer, and the state police and the feds knew it.
They knew where they were going and they chose a remote section of highway in the dead of winter to confront them. Away from witnesses of ANY kind.
And then opened fire on a moving vehicle.

If that's your idea of justice, or the pursuit thereof, we have an issue.
Finicum was guilty of one thing,... Trespassing. On a federal facility that was closed for the season.
That doesn't warrant killing him.

 

[clearconscience]

I never heard anything about the Feds destroying Finnicum's truck?

Sounds like the Feds losing the front door of the Waco compound.

anyone have a source for that? Other than online heresay?

 

[Jamie6.5]

That is exactly the point that I tried my best to explain to Cameron. There was no ambush of any kind at the traffic stop. Finicum could have peacefully given himself up then, just as Bundy did.

Instead, he made a different decision, and decided to flee the scene.

I hope you realize that these incidents took place at different locations, at different times.

You know, if the worst case scenario came to pass, and federal agents backed up by U.N. soldiers come to my neighborhood and demand my guns, and plan to take me in for telling them to eff-off, I would hope that at least NWFAers would band together to renounce such actions.
Not encourage me to acquiesce, and take my chances in a court where the odds, and the laws, and law enforcement have been turned against me.

Well Jamie, you could have just given up and given in. I mean after all, they did shoot at your house.
So maybe you shouldn't have shot back.

For the love of God and country, don't EVER make that recommendation to me Lance.

 

[bolus]

Here is a detailed and informative news write up on this story. Apparently Congressman Greg Walden lobbied the President very hard two weeks ago to grant them a pardon.

The Hammonds had only requested that their sentences be commuted to the time that they had served, and that they be released early. Instead of doing that, though, Trump gave them a full Presidential Pardon, which restores all of their rights, including the right to own firearms.

An organization called Backcountry Hunters & Anglers, has condemned Trump's pardoning of the two men. They said that it will encourage more lawbreaking, and that he should have only commuted their sentences, leaving them as convicted felons. They are upset that it will now be legal for the Hammonds to go hunting again. Does anyone know anything about this organization? How big are they? I've never heard of them before.


Trump pardons Oregon cattle ranchers in case that sparked 41-day occupation of national wildlife refuge

I'd say I think that maybe the federal government controls a bit too much land and having them pressured by something like this may be good?

 

[Jamie6.5]

I never heard anything about the Feds destroying Finnicum's truck?

Sounds like the Feds losing the front door of the Waco compound.

anyone have a source for that? Other than online heresay?

Watch the video at the link I posted.
You can hear the rounds hitting the truck, and see the bullet hole(s) in the windshield, and watch the rear left side window get shot out. While people were inside the truck.

All for the "heinous crime" of criminal trespassing.

 

[clearconscience]

Watch the video at the link I posted.
You can hear the rounds hitting the truck, and see the bullet hole(s) in the windshield, and watch the rear left side window get shot out. While people were inside the truck.

All for the "heinous crime" of criminal trespassing.

I meant about the Feds destroying the vehicle after that.
I've seen the videos multiple times.

 

[U8395279]

Of course I do.
None of that changes the fact the the truck was taking bullets before Finicum ever brought it to a stop.
Is it okay now for federal and state officers to just shoot at and endanger, possibly kill, all the occupants of a vehicle in the "interest" of apprehending them?
Because that's what they did.
And as far as I'm concerned, no one should be defending that policy.
Finicum and the Bundys were on their way to meet with a law enforcement officer, and the state police and the feds knew it.
They knew where they were going and they chose a remote section of highway in the dead of winter to confront them. Away from witnesses of ANY kind.
And then opened fire on a moving vehicle.

If that's your idea of justice, or the pursuit thereof, we have an issue.
Finicum was guilty of one thing,... Trespassing. On a federal facility that was closed for the season.
That doesn't warrant killing him.

You are guilty here of both totally changing the subject that I was talking about, and also trying to put words into my mouth that I have never said here in this discussion. Both of these actions on your part here are really quite deplorable in nature, and I personally resent your efforts in trying to misrepresent what I have said here.

You are talking about the later incident at the roadblock that Finicum tried to run through, while I was talking specifically about the initial roadstop that happened earlier. I wanted to correct the obvious misimpression that Cameron had about what happened during that traffic stop. These are two different incidents dude. They took place at different locations, at different times.

Honestly, you cannot understand that? You cannot comprehend that I was talking about what happened at the traffic stop?

Geez, Louise, guys. How much more do I have to spell this out?

 

[GUNARCHER]

I remember a lot of problems with the FBI in that case being corrupt. There were articles in the papers about agents wearing badges after suspension and other facts. I'll see if I can find it. After all, we trust the FBI don't we?

 

[fredball]

Isn't this the same folks who Obummer or hillary had ordered all their livestock executed.
I remember this was Bullsh!t thing to do to those rancher folks

 

[clearconscience]

Thread closed in 3....2....1....


Lance is right, we are getting way off base here.
We aren't saying the FBI or whoever was there was in the right, didn't lie afterwords, or possibly didn't want to kill those guys in the first place.

The problem is if Finnicum stayed at the first roadblock, and surrendered he would be alive and a pardoned free man today.

HIS decision to flee that first stop resulted in his death.

Especially knowing that the politics, public opinion, and hearts and minds of people the LEOs was against them.