Northwest Gun Stolen from Vehicle - is Owner Responsible for a Shooting?

[RX-79G]

the law that your defending

Quote where I defended the law.

Its pretty judgemental to say someone isnt a victim regardless of how well or greatly lacking they were about securing their possessions.

Look, you can leave an AK on your front porch, and when it is stolen you will still be a victim of a crime. But you were asking for it.

Car prowls have become a huge problem, and in any city you'll see little piles of tempered glass all over because it is SO common. They can get in your trunk in 5 seconds. This isn't up for debate - it happens constantly.

Doors that are way more secure than a California approved gun lock box. This is why I keep asking, and nobody has given an answer.... who gets to define whats an acceptable means of securing a gun in a car and what should that be? A California compliant gun lock box with cable can be picked in a mintue with a paper clip.... what locking device is appropriate here and who gets to define that?

Your doors don't matter, since your car has windows.

If CA has gun lock boxes, then it sounds like the minimum legal requirement in CA is that lock box. You know you can do better, so you should. If you are living under some other state's law, call the state attorney's office if you want to know what the minimum effort you need to make is. Get the answer in writing, if you are so inclined. Or, better yet, do something effective.

The actual criminal doesn't matter? ....oh this ends the debate right here. Your the one blaming the victim now. Completely anti-gun position to make the gun owner responsible for the criminal.

Who said that?

What I keep saying is that you shouldn't be so hung up on who's to blame and just do the right thing in the first place. Your whole argument centers around how negligent you can get away with being without having any repercussions. That's the way little kids think. Instead, ask yourself what a Boy Scout would do.

The world isn't binary. The criminal can be responsible even though you have your own burden. We are all grown men, so this victim blaming mantra makes it sound like we're drunk sorority sisters, not people in control of our own lives.

 

[Koda]

Your doors don't matter, since your car has windows.

So does my house. But thank you for the discussion.

 

[JohnnyMac]

makes it sound like we're drunk sorority sisters

For the record. I have no problem with drunk sorority sisters.....

 

[RX-79G]

So does my house. But thank you for the discussion.

Which is why you have a safe or good hiding spot in your house.

 

[Koda]

Which is why you have a safe or good hiding spot in your house.

FWIW the same law were referencing applies to home thefts as well, liable...

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

A gun requires a little more responsibility than a pocket knife or bat that could be stolen and used in a crime. A knife or bat can be bought anywhere and by anyone of any age. I don't think leaving a bat or pocket knife in your car in plain view is is irresponsible, but leaving a gun on your front seat is.

That being said, if you did leave a gun on your front seat and someone broke in and committed murder with your gun, I don't think you should be charged with murder. You should be charged with something though. I'm not sure what. Negligence or something similar.

If you had it locked up then you shouldn't be charged with anything. I'm unclear on what would happen if your gun was stolen and a crime was committed right away, before you were aware and had the time to report it stolen.

 

[The Heretic]

thinking about this for half a second... how the crap would anyone know your gun wasnt locked unless you told them?

Would if I had a cordless side grinder with a skinny cut off wheel stolen from my locked vehicle by a thief. Said thief then breaks into your vehicle and uses my tool to defeat your common sense secured pistol storage system and steals your gun. Not being particularly fazed by laws the thief then breaks into my house and shoots me with your pistol when I go to investigate. Who's fault is it that I am dead. By some peoples logic it would be my own fault for not locking up such a powerful tool or maybe my family sues Lowe's or Dewalt. JHC folks, get a grip it is the thieves fault. Nanny state will not solve our problems!

Logic/laws/morality do not always overlap

 

[Koda]

....they would simply ask. If you lied and sait it was locked they would ask for the evidence of forced entry.

 

[jjfitch]

If it happens in Oregon, the new law guarantees that the gun owner, victim of a theft, will be held responsible.

It seems more and more states are making ambiguous laws where you are simply "responsible for every round that leaves your firearm"! even when initially securely stored.

Crazy 5hit!

 

[Flopsweat]

A gun requires a little more responsibility than a pocket knife or bat that could be stolen and used in a crime. A knife or bat can be bought anywhere and by anyone of any age. I don't think leaving a bat or pocket knife in your car in plain view is is irresponsible, but leaving a gun on your front seat is.

That being said, if you did leave a gun on your front seat and someone broke in and committed murder with your gun, I don't think you should be charged with murder. You should be charged with something though. I'm not sure what. Negligence or something similar.

If you had it locked up then you shouldn't be charged with anything. I'm unclear on what would happen if your gun was stolen and a crime was committed right away, before you were aware and had the time to report it stolen.

Well there you go with your common sense and straightforwardness.

Seriously, there's not much more to the issue than what you just said. If it's in clear view, not good. In the car but out of sight, good.

 

[CRBMoA]

Probably could add the car manufacturer as a co-defendant because the windows were not tinted enough to keep the poor crim from being forced to break it and snag the gun!

And the last gas station that sold the gun owner gas so he could drive to the location of the theft must bear some responsibility.

 

[91A PE]

I know LEOs and civilians leave firearms unattended in vehicles. Wondering if any active military or vets do the same. Can't imagine ever leaving a weapon unattended in a vehicle. Firearm is on your person, guarded by another, or locked and guarded by another. The only time a firearm is unattended is if it is double locked in the arms room or in a safe.

 

[parallax]

I'm wondering if the only solution in Oregon, is if i'm going to the range and need to stop somewhere, like a store or gas station/ convenience store, Is to sling my scary black rifle across my chest when i exit my vehicle and stroll into the store.That would appear to keep within the compliance of the new Law, but would get a exciting visit from local. LEO

 

[po18guy]

Ask leftist Sean Penn. The noted anti-gunner lost two handguns when his car was stolen from a restaurant parking lot a few years back.
"Mr. Penn! We recovered your stolen guns. Come on down to Compton as we'd really need to talk to you about them..."

 

[Qochoc]

But in Oregon, you are responsible for what happens with a stolen gun for Two years unless you can prove it was stored correctly and you have reported it to a law enforcement agency

 

[Flopsweat]

But in Oregon, you are responsible for what happens with a stolen gun for Two years unless you can prove it was stored correctly and you have reported it to a law enforcement agency

So, guilty until proven innocent?

 

[coltemp]

I know LEOs and civilians leave firearms unattended in vehicles. Wondering if any active military or vets do the same. Can't imagine ever leaving a weapon unattended in a vehicle. Firearm is on your person, guarded by another, or locked and guarded by another. The only time a firearm is unattended is if it is double locked in the arms room or in a safe.

Refer back a page. There are situations where you must enter a gun-free zone, courthouse, Post office, school (public OR private) etc... Whether you are military or not there are times where we HAVE to leave the firearm in the vehicle. Would prefer not to but then again I don't want to be a felon and lose my gun rights because I carried where it was illegal to do so. (BTW to add to the discussion, I don't park in the Post office parking lot because technically even the firearm secured in the vehicle is STILL on Federal property where it is illegal to carry period.)

 

[Unicykle]

Maybe I know how to not lose a gun.


You are correct. Stolen guns account for 10-15% of crime. My mistake.

But I didn't say anyone should be criminally liable. I just don't think you're much of a victim if you know about car prowls and you acted like it wouldn't happen to you. Or that it isn't your problem.


If your gun is stolen, you KNOW it is now in the hands of criminals, and criminals with guns do violent things. Why wouldn't you want to officially make it clear that anything that happens afterwards with your gun isn't you? When you sell a gun, don't you keep of record of who you sold it to? Every time on the news some guy's wife is killed and they ask him where his gun is, he suddenly remembers it was stolen. Juries love that answer.


Both in the real world and law, there is the concept of the reasonable man and foreseeability. Would a reasonable person expect that a safe and locked front door weren't adequate? Of course not. That's a lot of protection for a criminal to bother with. How about a tempered glass side window and a trunk release button? Not so much.


Doesn't matter whose fault it is. What matters is if you did a reasonable job with the things you can control. And if the majority of us took responsibility - instead of playing the blame game - we wouldn't have to worry about whether you'll get in trouble for making your gun easy to steal.

And if it is stolen anyway, no one is going to prosecute the guy whose gun had to be cut out of the car with a die grinder. These scenarios aren't reality, even in the most leftist places. Prosecutors have better things to do than make the law seem like a trap for anyone trying to comply. It's bad optics and unlikely to convince a jury.


I don't leave unsecured guns in the car. I also don't leave anything else of much value, either. It's just not smart. I've known a ton of people that have lost nice bicycles, backpacks, computers, house keys (registration has your address), etc out of locked cars. Be smart.

my troll radar is pegging too many catch phrases like "common sense"
" reasonable" " responsible" in the posts.

 

[coltemp]

my troll radar is pegging too many catch phrases like "common sense"
" reasonable" " responsible" in the posts.

A big +1 to that! I see the person did not bother to post a location but they certainly sound like an Inner-city Portland activist.

 

[Jason999]

Victim blaming, it's only acceptable when it is going against someone who doesn't follow the leftist agenda.

Was Sean Penn charged when he left 2 guns on his cars seat and had them stolen?