Gun Law Failure?

WhyteCheddar · Jan 11, 2011

I would disagree to this point, or maybe just restate that it is not the balancing of a budget and the cutting of taxes that is the issue. It is where government decides to spend the money that it does have. Or more simply put, cut other programs/spending. If we were to look at the constitutional mandate in terms of spending, where is the government overstepping? IMHO, if that spending were curtailed then it may have some extra cash to maintain more effective mental health services.
Also, I would be interested to read more about this "Prior to the mental health systems in most states being abolished by Conservative state level politicians during the 1980's to save money and balance budgets,".
If you could cite your source so I could read up that would be great!

Swedish K · Jan 11, 2011

I know that Jerry Brown blamed the problem in CA on Ronald Reagan - never mind that he chose to blame the governor instead of the legislature that passed the budget...

MarkAd · Jan 11, 2011

"abolished by Conservative state level politicians during the 1980s to save money and balance budgets, "

Wow, you have been drinking the media kool-aid.
I live with a certified mental health professional. Shoot and R/O with another one so I have a bit better information then you may have access to.
While budget concerns played a part in the lost of the mental health care system it was the mind set of the court system and groups like the ACLU in the 80's, that caused the lost of much of the primary care that guys like the loon in tucson should have been getting. It is this same mindset that stops the people at the college from doing anything. After he was just "ODD" or "Depressed" or any number of things that people will say to avoid taking care of each other. They pass it off as his right to be different.
After all you are not a mental case you are just "different."

ZigZagZeke · Jan 11, 2011

WhyteCheddar said:
I would disagree to this point, or maybe just restate that it is not the balancing of a budget and the cutting of taxes that is the issue. It is where government decides to spend the money that it does have. Or more simply put, cut other programs/spending. If we were to look at the constitutional mandate in terms of spending, where is the government overstepping? IMHO, if that spending were curtailed then it may have some extra cash to maintain more effective mental health services.
Also, I would be interested to read more about this "Prior to the mental health systems in most states being abolished by Conservative state level politicians during the 1980's to save money and balance budgets,".
If you could cite your source so I could read up that would be great!

From:

<broken link removed>

The Reagan and subsequent state administrations promoted the trend to community-based care by closing nine state hospitals; only five remain in operation today. Between 1957 and 1984, the California state hospital population dropped 84%. Together, these developments placed the primary clinical responsibility for mental health care on the counties, which were forced to rely for the bulk of their funding on the State.

The envisioned success of this "deinstitutionalization" rested largely on the assumption that as hospitals closed, the funds saved from their closure would "follow the patient" into the community. But in 1972 and 1973, California governor Ronald Reagan vetoed two funding provisions designed to protect these savings for mental health, beginning an ongoing pattern of funding diversions and shortfalls.

And BTW, at the time I was a Psychiatric Technician working at Stockton State Hospital. Later on I had a job that allowed me to be out and about during business hours and I saw many former patients on the streets. Typically, they were sent to live in flophouse hotels on general assistance and social security, to self-medicate, and to take care of themselves. Few had that capability. I remember "Arty" who was at least coherent and productive on the wards. I saw him many times, standing on the street corner talking to a non-existent friend and holding a well-worn paper bag, the same one, week after week. I shudder to think what might have been in that bag.

Mark W. · Jan 11, 2011

The simple truth is you can't stop crazy or stop pissed off or stop rage.

A person can be frickin nuts inside their head and never let on to anyone around them how crazy, mad insane, pissed off, etc they are. And until they do and in front of the right people or in the right situation there is no way to rule them out as the buyer of fertilizer, gasoline, Black powder, or a Glock and some 30 rd mags.

I'm pretty sure from the short time I have been on NWF that there are people here who would never pass a metal health evaluation if they answered truthfully. BUT they have never acted out or screamed at the moon so here they are quietly discussing how many 30rd AR mags is enough.

So what happened will happen again and a again as it will happen more often as time goes on simply because people are made aware of the act.

Someone had to wake up and say I want to go into school today and kill as many classmates as I can first. They actually had to come up with that thought themselves. NOW we all can wake up with that same thought since it has become part of our memory. Reinforced every time this kind of act happens.

I know we think there should be a way to fix this. That is built into mens DNA. nothing we can do to change that. But the simple fact is people go nuts and you just can't stop it.

IMHO

WhyteCheddar · Jan 11, 2011

ZigZagZeke said:
From:

This Link

And BTW, at the time I was a Psychiatric Technician working at Stockton State Hospital. Later on I had a job that allowed me to be out and about during business hours and I saw many former patients on the streets. Typically, they were sent to live in flophouse hotels on general assistance and social security, to self-medicate, and to take care of themselves. Few had that capability. I remember "Arty" who was at least coherent and productive on the wards. I saw him many times, standing on the street corner talking to a non-existent friend and holding a well-worn paper bag, the same one, week after week. I shudder to think what might have been in that bag.