Generational Change Potential For Changing Voter Majorities.

[Koda]

Formally, yes, it is ansolutely an expression of a particular ideology, but with respect to my comment, in context, no.

I think I agree, would it be fair to say it would be appropriate for US public schools to teach original interpretation of our constitution?

Similar to the recent SCOTUS litmus test on determining gun laws constitutional, it seems like the armed citizen ideology is in fact the intent of our founding fathers. At the very basic level, this is true about the US so it should be taught that way.

edit: same for teaching [the ideology] that we are a Federal Republic not a Democracy.

 

[monkeybutler]

I think I agree, would it be fair to say it would be appropriate for US public schools to teach original interpretation of our constitution?

Similar to the recent SCOTUS litmus test on determining gun laws constitutional, it seems like the armed citizen ideology is in fact the intent of our founding fathers. At the very basic level, this is true about the US so it should be taught that way.

edit: same for teaching [the ideology] that we are a Federal Republic not a Democracy.

Sounds great.

What is the point of "Federal Republic?"

 

[Koda]

What is the point of "Federal Republic?"

Why?
What is the point of any form of govt? Im not certain we need to dissect the differences between types of govt here. I included the form of govt as an example....

My point was we have a constitutional right to arms, were a Federal Republic, yet millions of Americans believe we are a Democracy and dont have a right to arms and my strong guess is because thats whats being taught in schools.

 

[monkeybutler]

Why?
What is the point of any form of govt? Im not certain we need to dissect the differences between types of govt here. I included the form of govt as an example....

My point was we have a constitutional right to arms, were a Federal Republic, yet millions of Americans believe we are a Democracy and dont have a right to arms and my strong guess is because thats whats being taught in schools.

How does a distinction between democracy and federal republic have anything to gun rights? You seem to be linking the two.

 

[OldBroad44]

This is a somewhat political post, but the intent is NOT to be divisive. It is to lay out some facts that we all need to be aware of.
As of 5 years ago according to Pew Research:
59% of gun owners are Republican or lean Republican.
30% of gun owners are Democrats or lean Democrat.
The remainder are independent.
Only 42% of households owned a gun at the time.
As gun owners, we are a minority... period.
Republican gun owners count for less than 25% of the population.
I didn't find more recent numbers, but the number of Democrats purchasing guns in the past 5 years has been on the rise. In other words, it's likely that at this time 1/3 gun owners are Democrats.
Let that soak in.
When you go to the range... 1 out of 3.
When you make 2A related posts online... 1 out of 3.

I think any Pew or other poll way underestimates the number of gun owners. I don't put signs or indicators of my status with respect to gun ownership on my car, property, or clothing. I Dont advertise gun ownership for fear of attracting robbers when away from home. And whenever anybody phones me asking if I'd be willing to participate in a poll, I say "I don't do polls " and hang up. My friends all know I have guns, though. When I went to grad school in MA it was almost impossible to get legal permission to own a handgun. So I simply kept my mouth shut about owning one. Not even friends knew anything about it. When my family lived in NY, where owning guns was a big deal, my dad explained to us kids that we should never say anything about our family having guns or we ourselves knowing how to shoot.

As for tallying the voting inclinations of various parties, dont know about others, but the party I'm registered for and who I vote for don't necessarily correlate. I'm basically independent, but I'm registered democrat because the elections in OR for the last 20+ years have been settled in the dem primary. When I first moved to OR 40+ years ago I registered republican because at that point the state was a one party state for republicans, so the only way to have a vote that counted was to vote in the Republican primary. I may switch my registration back to the republican party. I think that primary may be the one that matters next election.

 

[Koda]

How does a distinction between democracy and federal republic have anything to gun rights? You seem to be linking the two.

Im talking about how the education system indoctrinates society away from gun rights. I gave a couple of example of how they indoctrinate. That is all.

 

[Saladfarmer]

According to Turning Point USA. Gen Z (the ones in high school and beginning college right now) are the most conservative since WW2.
We can only hope they rebel against the now normie wokies running the system right now. We'll see this coming year I suppose...
If there is, in fact, an election..

 

[CamoDeafie]

According to Turning Point USA. Gen Z (the ones in high school and beginning college right now) are the most conservative since WW2.
We can only hope they rebel against the now normie wokies running the system right now. We'll see this coming year I suppose...
If there is, in fact, an election..

I.. have doubts.... how'd they get that assumption of Gen Z?

Edit.. I mean.. what Gen are overrepresented in YT, IG, Reddit, and so forth? Online?

 

[Saladfarmer]

I.. have doubts.... how'd they get that assumption of Gen Z?

Edit.. I mean.. what Gen are overrepresented in YT, IG, Reddit, and so forth? Online?

I hear ya. That was the report I just heard though.
Didn't catch the guys name, but it was on the radio, the show Dan Celia had before he died, but same show, Financial Issues, still on CSN.
I will say Turning Point USA does have a large presence with that younger crowd... And , Just like the loudest what seems like majority, is only a small fraction in reality, the left is just more organized. Not all kids are on those platforms, surprisingly, met quite a few that don't do all that media stuff. In This part of the country we have a slightly skewed view of what really exists beyond the dystopian population centers of these western states.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Economically, it will be the Gens Y and Z that drives more of the consumerism, debt, and side gigs/making money... we already see that with quite a large number of home based businesses (yeah, some are MLM scams and the like seem prevalent, but don't forget, they're similar to Avon, Mary Kay, Hoover door to door salespeople) ; a large number of resellers/thrifters, a lot of flippers of all kinds, online personalities/sex work/etc, and even makers (3d printed stuff and so on)... these are the people who will be driving the politics, and the economy.. bad or good, we won't know until after it all comes to pass.

Just from where I'm at.. with this being a college town, and nearby "rural" communities.. I'd say that a good number of Gen Zs are more... open about their bodies and beliefs. Although.. it's hilarious how the one stoplight corner in Monmouth has weekly protests of the same 6-8 white people protesting "for" BLM and "stop Asian Hate" and they're almost always Gen Xs/Boomers with maybe 2 younger people... maybe the rest are actually always in Portland?

Edit. Never mind that in Monmouth, food trucks, Asian (mostly East but some West Asian) foods, Mexican foods are always busy and making money, and the bars are always changing hands and the pizza places are wildly different in quality..

 

[CrackPipe]

I think any Pew or other poll way underestimates the number of gun owners. I don't put signs or indicators of my status with respect to gun ownership on my car, property, or clothing. I Dont advertise gun ownership for fear of attracting robbers when away from home. And whenever anybody phones me asking if I'd be willing to participate in a poll, I say "I don't do polls " and hang up. My friends all know I have guns, though. When I went to grad school in MA it was almost impossible to get legal permission to own a handgun. So I simply kept my mouth shut about owning one. Not even friends knew anything about it. When my family lived in NY, where owning guns was a big deal, my dad explained to us kids that we should never say anything about our family having guns or we ourselves knowing how to shoot.

As for tallying the voting inclinations of various parties, dont know about others, but the party I'm registered for and who I vote for don't necessarily correlate. I'm basically independent, but I'm registered democrat because the elections in OR for the last 20+ years have been settled in the dem primary. When I first moved to OR 40+ years ago I registered republican because at that point the state was a one party state for republicans, so the only way to have a vote that counted was to vote in the Republican primary. I may switch my registration back to the republican party. I think that primary may be the one that matters next election.

I would never argue that a poll is 100% accurate, but Pew is one of the more reliable sources for information like this. Do you have a more reliable source? If so, I am interested.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I would never argue that a poll is 100% accurate, but Pew is one of the more reliable sources for information like this. Do you have a more reliable source? If so, I am interested.

The thing about polls in general.. is that it's all projections, extrapolation, estimates based on rather small sample sizes as a percentage of the population, and voluntary

Gun purchase/background check data is more reliable, even if they don't really account for number of people owning.. only way to get an accurate count is to have firearms ownership registration and tracking, which is done in other countries and officially not done in the US, but some States have a form of firearm owner registries, mostly only on certain firearms, some only for handguns, and Illinois for everything "firearms related". The anti 2A parties (its not just the main anti2A Party, but several related 3rd parties) wants to know who owns the firearms and where, and they want to make that data publicly available one way or other.

 

[CrackPipe]

I think I agree, would it be fair to say it would be appropriate for US public schools to teach original interpretation of our constitution?

Similar to the recent SCOTUS litmus test on determining gun laws constitutional, it seems like the armed citizen ideology is in fact the intent of our founding fathers. At the very basic level, this is true about the US so it should be taught that way.

edit: same for teaching [the ideology] that we are a Federal Republic not a Democracy.

A republic with democratic features. There are lots of appropriate names but one that seems to be pretty accurate is: "a federal, representative, democratic republic". I am not trying to nit-pick, but it always makes me nervous when people exclude the democracy part. It's pretty important.

 

[monkeybutler]

….but it always makes me nervous when people exclude the democracy part. It's pretty important.

Yeah I notice that too, seems to be fairly trendy lately, and to be frank, when it is mixed with the populism it typically is, is amusingly paradoxical, given that it (the insistence on "republic") was originally written by elite, trying to preserve their status.

 

[RVTECH]

I suspect any form of non-compliance would depend on several factors such as risk, legal ramifications if caught, how 'seriously' the law is being enforced and probably most importantly does the law specifically apply to the firearm or 'ancillary' to the firearm?

For example SB 941. 'rumors' are it is being non-complied with regularly however with few repercussions.

In this case SB 941 is not being taken very seriously due to weak enforcement and legalities however in the case of an all out 'ban' on a gun where it could not be possessed in public with possible felony charges, compliance would no doubt be on a dramatically greater level.

 

[OldBroad44]

I would never argue that a poll is 100% accurate, but Pew is one of the more reliable sources for information like this. Do you have a more reliable source? If so, I am interested.

The poll is based self reporting. And its a situation where there are lots of reasons for people to claim no guns who have them and few or no reasons to claim you have one when you dont. That is, there is lots of reason to expect misreporting and the misreporting to all be in the direction of underestimating the number of guns. Under such conditions a result saying that x% of families own a gun actually just means "x % of families or more have guns " And there aren't going to be more reliable info based on self reported polls. To get more reliable data you'd probably need a more restricted study and one involving searches. Such as what proportion of drug dealers whose houses or apartments are searched have guns? What proportion of felons rearrested whose places are searched have guns? What proportion of cars searched, etc.

 

[CamoDeafie]

According to Turning Point USA. Gen Z (the ones in high school and beginning college right now) are the most conservative since WW2.
We can only hope they rebel against the now normie wokies running the system right now. We'll see this coming year I suppose...
If there is, in fact, an election..

Gen Z could be the most conservative generation ever

They go out less, have less sex, and lose their virginity later. What is up with today’s teenagers?

www.afr.com

So... like they say, the devil is in the details;

It really depends on what the questions of the survey asked, and how it's calculated.


They are having less sex; doing less recreational drugs and drinking, less going out with friends, more staying home, spending less, (or borrowing less), working less... but on the other hand, they're more open about sexuality, boundaries, kinks, preferences, mental illnesses (real or imagined); and more willing to vote for authoritarian politicians..

 

[OldBroad44]

Article is behind paywall.

Sounds like gen Z is just less into in person interaction. More into videogames and sitting in front of screens. Some maybe forced by covid shutdowns. I wonder if real sex or drive to interact with or find real partners is sabotaged by on line porn.

I read somewhere that millennials are very good at collaborating at work. But gen Z prefers to work alone.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Article is behind paywall.

Sounds like gen Z is just less into in person interaction. More into videogames and sitting in front of screens. Some maybe forced by covid shutdowns. I wonder if real sex or drive to interact with or find real partners is sabotaged by on line porn.

I read somewhere that millennials are very good at collaborating at work. But gen Z prefers to work alone.

It's possible.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/08/us/baby-boomers-gen-z-cec/index.html

Is Gen Z the most conservative generation in history?

Why teens and twenty-somethings could fuel the next Tory revival.

www.newstatesman.com

But overall it also seems that taking things out of context, led to assumptions about Gen Z. The paywalled article is almost the same as the 2nd link I provided in this reply, the first link is where the American psychology person stated that more Gen Zs self-reported as "conservative" than those in Gen Y (Millenials). Still, it doesn't mean Gen Z is "most conservative since WW2 generation"

 

[AshWilliams]

...

I doubt illegal immigrants can be easily got to vote. They don't have the docs necessary to register. I think cheating is usually done using poor people. Someone by arrangement comes to the ghetto or project and picks up poor people, drives them to poll, waits while they vote, then drives them home and pays them the going rate. Supposedly the Kennedy election was bought that way. Joseph Kennedy's Mafia connections provided the votes in just a few critical areas, supposedly enough to actually change the election results.

...

For measure 26-231 in Multnomah County, 45% of voters voted in favor of allowing non-U.S. citizens to vote.

Multnomah County voters turn down voting access for noncitizens

Measure 26-231, allowing voting to be extended to non-citizens, was not passed by voters during the 2022 midterms.

www.opb.org