Former UN Abassador: Obama will target gun ownership in second term

[DoubleTapDrew]

Ahh, the UN, wonderful allies to our hobby...

 

[bugeye]

My point is, one word, Sovereignty





LOL! man you are kidding yourself! The league of nations was primarily started to enforce the Treaty of Versailles, that was a stunning success what with stopping the rise of the Nazi's and all! LOL.

In the end The League was a paper pushing farce with lots of lawyers, committees, political pomp and circumstance and no bullets! Basically The League's solution to problems was always harsh language written by lawyers, and when that didn't work the lawyers shuffled more paperwork and issued more harsh language.

It's akin to handing a mugger a note from your mother stating that they must stop immediately.

Just read this on Appeasement by the League and you'll get an idea of what a waste of time and how it actually enabled the enemy.

Appeasement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I did say 'a stronger league' and your pot shots are directed at the weaker league that existed.
Setting up a world government involves paperwork, lawyers, and agreements, what you think a few handshakes will do the trick?
The UN is also weak, it's a very low budget world government, that allows plenty of sovereignty.
It's goofy to argue the value of a world government with someone that hates government in general.
This is like handing a reductionist a note from your mother that says things are complex.

 

[Trlsmn]

I did say 'a stronger league' and your pot shots are directed at the weaker league that existed.
Setting up a world government involves paperwork, lawyers, and agreements, what you think a few handshakes will do the trick?

Bullets rule the world not paper.

The UN is also weak, it's a very low budget world government, that allows plenty of sovereignty.
It's goofy to argue the value of a world government with someone that hates government in general.
This is like handing a reductionist a note from your mother that says things are complex.

The UN is worthless and I have zero use for a world government, I have two things that govern my actions, number 1 my conscience, and number 2 the Constitution, for anything outside of that I have bullets not obedience.

 

[Redcap]

Bullets rule the world not paper.



The UN is worthless and I have zero use for a world government, I have two things that govern my actions, number 1 my conscience, and number 2 the Constitution, for anything outside of that I have bullets not obedience.

Absolutely.

 

[Stomper]

Bullets rule the world not paper.



The UN is worthless and I have zero use for a world government, I have two things that govern my actions, number 1 my conscience, and number 2 the Constitution, for anything outside of that I have bullets not obedience.

SCHWING!!

 

[Gator Monroe]

Absolutely.

When the Progressive left lobbies for special Rights & protections via social justice for NAMBLA types and the bleeding heart Democrats pull it off ( The Special Rights) which will it be ? (bullets or obediance)

 

[Kevatc]

When the Progressive left lobbies for special Rights & protections via social justice for NAMBLA types and the bleeding heart Democrats pull it off ( The Special Rights) which will it be ? (bullets or obediance)

Are you flippin' kidding me????? Where do you come up with this crapola? You must be bored out of your gord to sit around and think up such stupid excrement.

 

[bugeye]

Bullets rule the world not paper.



The UN is worthless and I have zero use for a world government, I have two things that govern my actions, number 1 my conscience, and number 2 the Constitution, for anything outside of that I have bullets not obedience.

Great you've got bullets, a 12 page vague, semi legal, document from 1786, and your own personal sense of right and wrong!
And one of your three is paper!
And one is a slave to rationalization.
But at least you got the bullets, good luck with them against the H bomb!

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Great you've got bullets, a 12 page vague, semi legal, document from 1786, and your own personal sense of right and wrong!
And one of your three is paper!And one is a slave to rationalization.
But at least you got the bullets, good luck with them against the H bomb!

Ya know Buggy - I've been inclined to give you quite a bit of slack for a long time now - that right there is close to unbearable. Please find the nearest country of your choice that will provide you with the level of tyranny you seem to desire to live under, and go there quickly. The near future environment in this country will probably not be too healthy for people with that kind of attitude. I'm sick to death of people pissin' on my constitution and bill of rights...

Respect for that document is the ONLY thing that stands between us and living in a third-word cess-pit like most of the human race has created for itself around the world.

As for "semi-legal" - the Supremacy clause that the federal criminals like to twist into something it absolutely is not , actually states that the constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any law passed by the criminal congress that contravenes the constitution is no law at all.

 

[Stomper]

Great you've got bullets, a 12 page vague, semi legal, document from 1786, and your own personal sense of right and wrong!
And one of your three is paper!

That "piece of paper" has been signed in ink, paid for and defended in blood, sweat and tears over the course of it's existence (ask me sometime about the personal losses I suffered fulfilling my oath, "to protect and defend the Constitution")... that YOU directly benefit from since the day you were born, and HOPEFULLY until the day YOU die.

Vague you say? What's so vague about, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed is vague? What part of, "Congress shall make no law against free speech" is vague? What part of, "THOU SHALL NOT" (in general) is vague?

Semi-legal you say? It is merely the PROCLAMATION AND AFFIRMATION of GOD-GIVEN rights, and natural law that gives the "common man/woman" the tools and guidance to shrug off and overthrow tyranny from high places... something many of "us" have been, and are still willing to do if need be.

And one is a slave to rationalization.

Why are you knocking "rationalization"? Don't Progressive/Liberals center their entire ideology (aka religion) around "moral relativism", which is analogous to rationalization?

But at least you got the bullets, good luck with them against the H bomb!

Yes, at least "we" have bullets (in fact several THOUSAND more since last week). With them "we" can get food, gold, security, and if need be... leave some SERIOUS claw marks in any would-be oppressor that decides to "insinuate" themselves into "our" lives. Some of "us" would rather go out "with our boots on"... if only a few had stood up to the rising evil in the early days before WWII, many lives may have been spared.

As for the H-bomb... get real, the only one's with the political stones to use them are Muslim extremist, and we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. Other than that, H-bombs are just a VERY EXPENSIVE paper weight.

 

[Kevatc]

I don't want to speak for bugeye but I think his statement about a "vague document from 1786" is somewhat accurate. Here we are some 225 years after the fact and the 2A is still being debated. Clear as the 2A is to us there are some who don't see the wording of the 2A as clear cut. There are other examples as well but since this is a gun forum I am limiting my example to the 2A.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

I don't want to speak for bugeye but I think his statement about a "vague document from 1786" is somewhat accurate. Here we are some 225 years after the fact and the 2A is still being debated. Clear as the 2A is to us there are some who don't see the wording of the 2A as clear cut. There are other examples as well but since this is a gun forum I am limiting my example to the 2A.

Weasels debate the clearly worded and explicit document. There is not much to misunderstand unless your agenda is being thwarted by the law.

 

[bugeye]

That "piece of paper" has been signed in ink, paid for and defended in blood, sweat and tears over the course of it's existence (ask me sometime about the personal losses I suffered fulfilling my oath, "to protect and defend the Constitution")... that YOU directly benefit from since the day you were born, and HOPEFULLY until the day YOU die.

Vague you say? What's so vague about, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed is vague? What part of, "Congress shall make no law against free speech" is vague? What part of, "THOU SHALL NOT" (in general) is vague?

Semi-legal you say? It is merely the PROCLAMATION AND AFFIRMATION of GOD-GIVEN rights, and natural law that gives the "common man/woman" the tools and guidance to shrug off and overthrow tyranny from high places... something many of "us" have been, and are still willing to do if need be.





Why are you knocking "rationalization"? Don't Progressive/Liberals center their entire ideology (aka religion) around "moral relativism", which is analogous to rationalization?




Yes, at least "we" have bullets (in fact several THOUSAND more since last week). With them "we" can get food, gold, security, and if need be... leave some SERIOUS claw marks in any would-be oppressor that decides to "insinuate" themselves into "our" lives. Some of "us" would rather go out "with our boots on"... if only a few had stood up to the rising evil in the early days before WWII, many lives may have been spared.

As for the H-bomb... get real, the only one's with the political stones to use them are Muslim extremist, and we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. Other than that, H-bombs are just a VERY EXPENSIVE paper weight.

That constitution's teeth is in over 10 million very specific laws that define how it operates, I'm sure if we went through them we'd find a lot of turkeys! If you don't find it vague then consider this, the mortgage on my middle class hovel is longer than the constitution! Not even you uberbubbas can be serious about this argument!

Rationalization is common as dirt and it directly effects the conscience. I take this a step further and believe that ego makes even truth in it's own image, because ego is truths god, and that is why every scumbag can fully justify whatever they did. Anyway here I was saying that ones conscience is subject to compromise after compromise, a point not worth arguing about as it is simply so!

As to the H bomb, I brought it up to Trismn's comments about having no need for a anything beyond his microcosm, it's really a slam dunk! If you think it is a paperweight then you might want to consider what forces beyond your petty little microverse have made it so.

 

[Kevatc]

Weasels debate the clearly worded and explicit document. There is not much to misunderstand unless your agenda is being thwarted by the law.

Not that I disagree with you but if it were absolutely clear then there would be zero debate about the 2A.

 

[Kevatc]

Weasels debate the clearly worded and explicit document. There is not much to misunderstand unless your agenda is being thwarted by the law.

How do you rationalize the Roe v. Wade case with this statement?

 

[bugeye]

I don't want to speak for bugeye but I think his statement about a "vague document from 1786" is somewhat accurate. Here we are some 225 years after the fact and the 2A is still being debated. Clear as the 2A is to us there are some who don't see the wording of the 2A as clear cut. There are other examples as well but since this is a gun forum I am limiting my example to the 2A.

I find 2A to be pretty clear, though the intrepretation now is that it is a global right rather than just being an assurance to the state legislatures that ratified the constitution of the limits of the federal government. Keep in mind the constitution was ratified without the bill of rights, they came three three years later. The main push for the constitution was so the federal government could tax, it was designed to present a limited government that wouldn't directly compete with the states who held the real power at that time. The change of scope on 2A hasn't amounted to much anyway.

 

[Stomper]

Ahem... in a GENERAL nutshell.... originally the Federal Government was to collect income from import tarriffs, and represent the Union abroad in foreign affairs, as well as "make regular" interstate commerce to keep the "big" states from being unfail to the "small" states, and provide to the common defence of the union under one flag... obviously with the signatory states' particpation.


As far as "interpreting" the Constitution... I'm sure there will be PLENTY of "know it alls" who will (try) argue with God on judgement day...

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

How do you rationalize the Roe v. Wade case with this statement?

No agenda there, eh?

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Roe v Wade is easy to explain: The 9th Amendment to the Constitution says "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

People have a tendency to forget this one is in there, and think that they only have the rights that are listed. This is where we find the "right to privacy" that was used to validate Roe v Wade. It is also where we can find many of the rights that liberals bring up in court cases.

As a Libertarian, I find the 9th and 10th Amendments among the most important.

 

[MikeSettles]

My understanding: The whole idea of our Constitution and Bill of Rights was to create a framework for limited national government, and keep said government firmly within the limits set upon it.

We the People have allowed the federal (and state) government(s) to assume too much power outside that which was originally granted by the Sovereign (us).

It's long past time to rein all those folks back in, to change the paradigm BACK to "You work for US"!

"Gun Control" is important as the most visible symptom of arrogance by our "public servants".